problems with homeblown bio-foam?

General Discussion
1

i shaped about 10 boards now using homeblowns bio-foam and have had a few problems with the fin boxes… among other things.

most boards have been done with future boxes and the last few have had some major problems. the foam seems to have puffed up around the boxes on the bottom, expanding with the glass about 1/8" higher than the box. some of the boards are showing the same puffing along the rails but not nearly as bad. the expansion happened after the boards were laminated, one was navy blue and the other was a red/yellow/black acid splash with a clear base. the boards have not been subjected to heat and as i haven’t had the same problems with other boards that were glassed clear w/ UV i think it may be the catalyst.

there is another board where the foam did the opposite and appears to have caved in above the boxes on the deck.

i’ve been trying to get ahold of homeblown for about a week now to see if there have been any reports of this from others but the sales rep is MIA and nobody ever calls back at the office.

go figure.

just wanted to see if any of you have had similar problems or thoughts of what it could be, the other laminator at the shop (who has considerably more experience than me) says he’s never seen it before but hasn’t done too much of the bio-foam.

2

Aloa Los Olas,

We’re very sorry to hear you’ve had some issues with the BioFoam boards. This is still a work in progress and some of the earlier boards had issues (not sure when your’s were made). Also, many are finding that a cheater coat is require for processing the earlier foam.

All that said, I’d be happy to discuss making your situation right. Send me an email or give me a call and we’ll talk.

Thanks,

Randy

3

hey troppo,

these blanks were made pretty recently (within the last 2 or 3 months) all boards were given a cheater coat, usually using UV. the two toned board i just posted in the “show us your resin tints” thread was sealed using the colored resin with cat. that is the board that had the caving on the deck around the fin boxes. i will pm you with more details.

5

Alright green nazi, its not about being completely green, its about lessening your impact. Im not about to go on about it, as there are multipage threads for that, but the all or nothing attitude is pretty lame.

6

Ned and the guys at HB are terrific.

However, if suggest if you have problems with a blank manufacturer with problems of this caliber and all that is suggested is a cheater coat, you may want to cut your losses and move on to another supplier.

This probably sounds harsh to someo of you that read earlier postings from me. I have worked closely with some MDI foam suppliers and after spending MY money and time fixing their screwups going through THEIR learning curve, I have become a realist and awakened to smell the coffee.

There are many, many people that are attempting to make foam that we are only prolonging the inevitable by being so nice and understanding. This approach doesn’t work and actually prolongs stabilizng consistent quality of the blank supply.

My statement is certainly open to debate (competition is good, blah blah, but how much competition is healthy, and at what price?)

Water flows into the low spots and helps level things out. Let’s hope the same goes for the blank industry. The only way we can truly move on is to be less tolerant with the business interests that clearly aren’t putting out consistently good foam by cutting the chord.

I say this only after going through my own fair share of experiences like what you have stated, and after many years in the trench, I can honestly state the problems weren’t of my doing…and I know when a cheater coat isn’t a panacea for a considerably more complex problem.

So, find a foam that is convenient and available at a fair price tha works for you instead of trying to ‘do the right thing’ and ending up beating your head agaist a wall.

You owe yourself better than that.

P.S.

Don’t send me any letters claiming to be a ‘hater’ (whatever that means. Some realities are simply harsher than others.

7

throwing away $$cash, or in essence someones labor, is

not very green.

See a penny, pick it up and all day long you’ll have good luck

If soylent green is people,

then what is bio-foam? …Shit

8

if you want some good foam go with blair some of the best out there at the moment and into the future.

10

being broke is one way to be green…kind of.

11

DS i completely agree with you.

i have tried to be a little more “green” by using this bio foam and when they gave me some samples they came out pretty good. there were some pour lines and some slight discoloration along the stringer but i almost never glass my boards with clear resin so i wasnt too concerned. i kept both boards, surfed them, loaned them out for others to try and got good feedback- the foam was holding up, no caving or shrinking, they felt good in the water, ect. i was convinced. i called ned and made an order. thats when the trouble started. i should have gotten out then and there but i was being a nice guy (you couldn’t have put it any better), the order took nearly a month to reach me (SF from SD), and about a week after it came i noticed that EVERY blank over 8’ was defective (well all but one), the stringers were milled uneven and resulted in huge peaks and valleys in the bottom of the blank. i ordered 30 blanks so didnt check each one individually when they came off the truck (the reason i ordered so many was because it would cost a horrendous sum of money to ship them trough a third party. by ordering 30 they drove them up themselves for free) . i called ned immediately wanting either a refund or new blanks and to this day have received neither. then the glassing problems i mentioned in my earlier post stated to occur. now they dont even return my phone calls.

i am relatively new to the industry and am sad to see that so many others have been through the same problems. i have spoken with many well known veteran board builders in my area about these problems, all of them have tried the foam, some have had the same experience, some have not. all say the same thing though: cut your losses go with someone else

i didnt want to slander HB’s business on this forum but i am getting fed up. i have since retuned to using US blanks and while they do have some issues they at least have the courtesy to address them in a timely and professional manner. these problems have cost me time and money and possibly customers as surfding said.

i never thought that the bio-foam would change to world but i thought that it might at least be a step in the right direction. i still have about 12 of their blanks left (including the defective ones that are yet to be refunded- at this point i am over replacing them) and i am rather unsure of what to do with them. right now it seems like more money down the drain.

Obie-won i guess i am being green your way now

12

I learned the “being too nice” lesson the hard way recently, after 2 different glassing subcontractors almost put me out of business (I’m still feeling the affects). After reading this thread I came up with the phrase; “live by the bro, die by the bro”. It would be funny if it weren’t so true …

Vaya Con Dios

13

I almost bought some blanks from them but they never returned my phone calls… so i didn’t.

15

… point taken and lesson learned. I winced when I read all your stories, especially the part about being treated like a kook. I know it was blanks in your case, my whole thing was business too so somewhat similar. I was a “bro” (nod nod wink wink) until my glass jobs never got finished and then started looking like shit after I politely (really, I was nice) raised a little Cane. Then I was lame and a kook. And I had about 10 - 15 years on these guys. Like I said they turned out not to be bros, and that’s only good news for me. I’ve cut my losses and moved on … that’s life … and the sun’s still gonna shine tomorrow!

Vaya Con Dios

16

The internet is a funny thing, powerful at information and mis-information. If 5 out of 100 customers are unhappy and 95 are happy the only ones somebody will remember are the unhappy ones. Does that mean you shouldn’t try to make everyone happy…well in a way, because it ain’t gonna happen.

If everyone thinks that Clark blanks were perfect and the greatest and never had issues, they have glassed 1 too many boards without a mask on. I could go down the list of current blank makers and bash them all for things I have heard from shapers. I won’t. I could start a thread and have 10 shapers blast a blank(all have said it is the worst they have ever used) and yet dead shaper has raved about it. I could have the same and more shapers blast a blank that a big board(clothing company) uses as their standard blank. It isn’t the BIO that is the problem. It is that all these blanks companies are trying to do something better than before. Problem is they don’t have a MIcrosoft like monopoly like CL*%K did, they don’t send seconds to FL like C%$&k did they don’t cut you off if they here that you used another companies foam like C%$^K did. And actually they probably have less issues than Clark did over the years.

And guess what, if I ask 20 different shapers about the top 5 blanks out there they ALL will have a different opinion…what a suprise.

Biofoam does have to be treated a little different. Does that mean we should bash EPS too - spakling, heat around fin boxes, more glass = stiffer, but thinner shapes because of floatyness etc. Look at all the ways it has to be treated special. Look at all the trial and error that has gone on with it.

Done correctly Biofoam makes a wonderful board. Does that mean it is perfect…no, does that mean it won’t continue to evolve and get better…of course it will. I know of over 100 boards in FL that are doing just fine. Some riding it say even better or the best they have had…since it is durable and has a nice flex.

Las Olas, it looks to me like Homeblown responded and then you posted another rant without even giving them a chance to address the issue. Are you sure you just don’t want to vent. Because it seems to me If I posted, got a response, I would then hold off to see what the resolution was before posting again.

Surfding - the surf industry can be green, it just takes time. One thing you are forgetting is the shipping - the fuel, the pollution. blanks from Homeblown start off way better because it isn’t shipped from China, Brasil, or South Africa. Your list of 8 amounts to sh*t in the grand scheme of things right? Wrong, just like the foam we use it is all small choices that add up to a bigger impact. When the cloths and resins are up to the standard of performance, durability etc why wouldn’t someone like you use them? It sound like to me you are the type that would use biofoam since you already do these other LITTLE things in your life to do your part. Does the fact that you don’t ride your bike everywhere and you still drive places negate the other things you do? No. It is all about small changes, but progessing in the right direction.

17

kirby,

you are right i am venting, but this is the only place i seem to get any feedback. i saw the post from the HB guys, it was posted on friday the 8th, today is tuesday the 12th and despite several calls to the factory i have still not been in contact with anyone, i leave polite, clear messages with several different contact numbers and sill no word.

dont know who randy is at HB i’ve talked to many others, the head guy and sales rep mostly but that was over 3 weeks ago. while they have not addressed the issue on this forum i think that it is more appropriate that we speak in person (at least on the phone). also the response that was posted by HB was more of the same. “sorry to hear that, lets talk about it… blah blah”

i started this thread hoping that someone at the HB factory would see it and say something to ned or whoever, and they would get in contact with me. i did respond to TROPPO’s post kindly and promptly and have not received a response through this avenue either.

and just to be clear, it is not their product that i have problems with, its their way of conducting business. i know that they are a new manufacturer and i know all the issues that come with being a new company. i really like their foam actually, i like the way it shapes, i like the way it feels in the water, i even like the color of it. but like i said in my earlier post; unlike other foam companies that also have quality issues HB does not address them in a timely or professional manner, and that i can only tolerate so much.

i am throwing money down the drain on more foam while six 8+’ blanks rot away in the shop, and it really burns me. the least they could do is call me back.

thanks for everyones feedback and opinions on the matter, i did not want or intend to slander HB in any way on this forum, i like what they are doing and i think that they are headed in the right direction, hopefully their UK based operation is going more smoothly than this on in the US and everything will be worked out. you will have to excuse me now, i have to go make my daily call to the HB factory, im crossing my fingers, maybe someone will pick up today.

peace,

james

20

I really don’t want to throw fuel on a fire, I mean, can’t we all get along? I have to come to La Olas aid here. I think his whole point (correct me if I’m wrong Las Olas), is that no one will call him back and fix the issue. Any business that does not make customer service a priority is doomed to fail. I know I’m pointing out the obvious, but if us surfers ran the world, not a whole lot would get done … I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had flaky business dealings within the industry, and I’m not alone. It forced ME to get my shit together too, keep accurate records, keep a very open dialog with customers, and only buy from people who’s product was good and who treated me like a human. All I know is, if I worked for Homeblown, I’d be on the phone and make Las Olas happy. Bad news (right or wrong) travel fast. Alright now, lets shake hands - no need for bad vibes.

Vaya Con Dios and all that …