It’s too bad choosing one system over the others needs to be taken as an attack on the other systems. I use what I use in my business because it fits my program the best. Others may feel different or have a different program and thats fine also.
Being made in America cannot always be my only measurement in todays world…but I prefer to use craftsmanship from folks who have put their lives into creating product and futhering our sport…whether it be someone in Australia, some French shaper or the guys here in my own country and or region. After that…we all get stuck with some mass produced stuff. It’s just the way.
What I like about probox other than the expandability…it it was made for fiberglass fins to ride like glass ons. I have never bought into the break away concept. The main reason fin systems were invented in the first place was so boards could be shipped easier and so one could travel better. Now we have some companies like Probox, Lokbox, Four ways and others that have taken the next logical step towards expandability and adjustment. Customers should look closely to the details and make their choice for what suits them and gives them the best feeling about their purchase.
kirby…now I’m confused. Isn’t the title of this thread Probox & Future Fins partner up? And you argue that you buy Probox because “the only two guys doing all USA were Larry @ Fibre glas fin and Steve Mock @ Island Fin Design” and we all know that Futures produces RTM fins in China. Wouldn’t it follow that Probox will have options that are made outside of the USA if the title of the thread is true?
We live in a global economy. There is a disparity of labor costs in this global economy. The only ways to level the playing field is through efficiency, quality and automation. Daum Tooling, Inc. used to have twenty people on the payroll. Plucking, trimming a sorting rejects was moderately labor intensive. In the 10 years I’ve been here we’ve gotten down to 5 people on the payroll and increased our production. We’ve done this via making better quality molds that are balanced and automated and better injection molding machines . In doing so, we have won jobs back from China. But, in reality there are goods that are inherently labor intensive. The clothes you wear and the ultra-light cored RTM fins are perfect examples. Ask Larry about controlling core shift in RTM fins. We’ve tried to get them domestically. It did not work out. So, until the disparity of labor costs equalizes around the world or we find new cost affective ways to automate the cold hard reality is that to provide all the options that customers demand some of our customers have to go offshore for other items in their product line.
Solo is the only one who has hit the nail on the head. He uses Probox because it best fits his needs. That is the primary reason anyone should use to pick one system over another.
“I got no beef with any system, but Pro Box gives me the Best Made In USA/Versatility/Fin Selection for my boards.”
That is from my post. I use no FCS, Futures etc. I am sure they are fine. I USE probox/fibre glas fin or glass ons. Someone brought up the question, I had pictures from a show board. I can’t choose what fins customers will put in such a versatile system. Just stating why I CHOSE the system. Which fits my needs the same as solo who you gave praise, but I also want things shipped from as short a distance as possible - environmental. I don’t feel the surf “industry” fits in to todays global model. If you want my Opinion on that go to one of the china threads, but for now more fins.
I glad that Larry and Probox are able to meet your needs. Your choice should be based on how a system meets your needs. But, the emphasis of your post was that 100% US made is a major consideration. I was just pointing out that options available to Probox are made in China. The fundamental components of both Red X and LokBox are also 100% made in the USA. And, I pointed out earlier that much of Futures and FCS are also made here in Southern California. But, our distributors also offer options that are made in China. So, I don’t see a big difference there.
You also state that you want that glassed on feel. Well, that was our primary focus when we designed Red X and when LokBox was designed. Our attachment method is a matched tapered fit. This insures more intimate contact between the tab and the cavity of the box than any other attachment method.
The materials we’re using for injection molded fins have gone far beyond the original materials say FCS and others used to use that were too soft and spongy. The material we make the Next Generation series from is closer to G-10 flex than regular laminated fiberglass fins. Our stock X series approaches laminated fins in their flex characteristics. The consistancy fin to fin for shape and tolerance is tighter than hand shaped fins. Because we don’t have to put as much labor into each set we can sell them for less than laminated fins.
So, again I’m glad Larry meets your needs. Competition leads to options. I just don’t believe there is as big a difference in how “made in USA” Pro Box is as you imply.
“I was just pointing out that options available to Probox are made in China.”…tomatdaum
That has nothing to do with Probox and I personally won’t be using those options. With any boards I sell: ALL USA components - probox will be in there, I won’t tell the customer, “No you can’t have the board if you plan on trying FCS or Futures in it.”
“I just don’t believe there is as big a difference in how “made in USA” Pro Box is as you imply.”…tomatdaum
It is to me. Look, you’ve been doing it longer than me and I’m sure all the fins sytems/the work you are doing is fabulous, sincerely. All I know is I don’t have to worry about what comes from where with Probox in either plastic or glass or any mad scientist composites he is coming up with. As stated before - I have no FCS, FUTURES or anything else in my garage or in my boards. If no company exists in the future I will use glass ons and/or learn to make them myself. But right now Probox fits my needs in every way and that is no bash on the others. IF Larry opens up a Factory in GA or FL or the Bahamas I’d get them from there. Proximity=less shipping. Just like some cool fins I saw at Expo from Japan. Well I’d never get them - I’d call Marlin at 101 and ask him to make me something or Juan Rodriguez an hour south of me in FL.
Yes & yes…Shea Lopez was hanging at the LokBox booth last week and couldn’t get over how bitchn the Next Generation fins are. And, I’m making a new Taylor Knox mold as we speak.
If you truly want an all american made fin system just order the plastic fins.
Just order “plastic fins”?
Do you recommend plastic fins to your team riders?
Are the plastics your go to fin for your boards?
FWIW, at least since 1997, all my daily drivers have had either Excel(Red-X) Futures, FCS, ProBox or Lokbox. I get 3-8 new shortboards a year. I’ve tried countless varieties of each, from the ‘stock’ fins to the ‘top of the line’ way out there fins. For whatever reasons I always end up going back to the plastic/composites, Not saying I wouldn’t or won’t try new materials/templates etc., the plastic fins just seem to always work for well me (me = 5’8 x 140lbs).
kirby…now I’m confused. Isn’t the title of this thread Probox & Future Fins partner up? And you argue that you buy Probox because “the only two guys doing all USA were Larry @ Fibre glas fin and Steve Mock @ Island Fin Design” and we all know that Futures produces RTM fins in China. Wouldn’t it follow that Probox will have options that are made outside of the USA if the title of the thread is true?
We live in a global economy. There is a disparity of labor costs in this global economy. The only ways to level the playing field is through efficiency, quality and automation. Daum Tooling, Inc. used to have twenty people on the payroll. Plucking, trimming a sorting rejects was moderately labor intensive. In the 10 years I’ve been here we’ve gotten down to 5 people on the payroll and increased our production. We’ve done this via making better quality molds that are balanced and automated and better injection molding machines . In doing so, we have won jobs back from China. But, in reality there are goods that are inherently labor intensive. The clothes you wear and the ultra-light cored RTM fins are perfect examples. Ask Larry about controlling core shift in RTM fins. We’ve tried to get them domestically. It did not work out. So, until the disparity of labor costs equalizes around the world or we find new cost affective ways to automate the cold hard reality is that to provide all the options that customers demand some of our customers have to go offshore for other items in their product line.
Solo is the only one who has hit the nail on the head. He uses Probox because it best fits his needs. That is the primary reason anyone should use to pick one system over another.
tomatdaum, Sorry you are confused about ProBox using Plastic Fins made by Future. I thought my intro letter was pretty clear about the direction of this exciting relationship between Future Fins and we at ProBox.
Not sure where it states anything about me using RTM fins from Future, I make AERCORS which is a RTM fin. You are right about expensences in manufacturing here in the states and that’s why Aercor Fins have been hard to come by in the last few years. I have been offered alot of money for the Aercor tech. and even been approached by overseas companies to work for them, but I turned them down. Which drove my parter crazy because he said I was a fool, but my beliefs and heart were not into the move of such a relationship. I almost made the jump a few times under pressure, but at the last minute said, NO! Probably not a good business move, but I felt my product is a extension of me and to the people who help in giving me the ideas and support to do so. So at this point in my life after 38 years I choose to be a Fin Manufacture and not a Importer. Judging by the imput from people, I feel I made a good decision. And I will be evaluating the re-start of Aercor to the market I Love and has believed in me for so many years.
Tom I hope this helps in straighting up your confusion to this Thread. I am happy for your new developments and good fortune. And humbled that so many people do appreciate the personal sacrifices I made throught out the years to offer the best product I can make at a fair price with good and honest service.
Nice to see that certain things do make a difference to people, which is why ProBox was born into the world by Robin and Mitch from Kauai and then adopted by me and my partner Mike
to Calif. And excepted by the Swaylockians and surfing community and even recognized by leaders Like Future Fins to share in the experience of ProBox into the 21st century of surfing.
I guess you can say that, " ProBox is truly a USA made Finsystem with Hawaiian Soul." WELCOME TO THE PROBOX MOVEMENT!!
Thanks for the welcome back. We had a great show … sorry I didn’t see you there to give you the whole low down in person … our office invite still stands.
Re: “to date” … was more about where all our fins are currently made … although for example the K-Flex come from AUS. Maybe I’m parsing my own hairs, I guess I could have written “ALL”
Plugs are Asia due to the volume and labor to install set screws, pack in sets of 4, etc, etc …
If you want to schedule a Fusion installation, please call or email.
Maybe its a size thing (I am 6’ 200lbs), but i can’t use the plastic fins at all. I am sliding on plastics all over the place if the waves are over waist high. I know some of you young guys like that, both of my boys think I am crazy (17 and 18), but at 42 with over 30 years of surfing, 90% of the time on a shortboard, I don’t want to slide. I was ready to give up on removables, but once I switched to fiberglass fins, I have been stoked ever since.
If you truly want an all american made fin system just order the plastic fins.
Just order “plastic fins”?
Do you recommend plastic fins to your team riders?
Are the plastics your go to fin for your boards?
As a matter of fact yes I would, and do regularly. As Tom mentioned in a post above, Shea Lopez has always loved them, and is very interested in the new ones. He’s often requested them over glass fins as he likes the flex pattern. He’s just one guy but lot’s of people like how they ride. For the record we’ll call them molded composites because there’s way more to them than just plastic. Also I wouldn’t allow any fin in our line that doesn’t perform very well. I back these 100% and always have them with me on trips. These are the X-5’s and I put them through the paces on one of my trips to Peru. Put all my 200lbs into them with all I had and they scream through turns.
We’re currently in the process of development of a new Taylor Knox template with Tom. If Taylor can’t ride them you won’t see them in the line. Period. I’ll throw the mold away before offering something that everyone including a top pro can’t or won’t ride.
Just one of the many breaks like it in that region. I’ve had days there that give you the opportunity to do anything you could ever imagine on a surfboard. From the fastest highlines, to 50 yard barrel sections and everything in between. Playful to downright burly. When it comes to testing fins it’s almost my own private idaho…
At my age it’s becoming more about fun, nice shaped waves rather than trying to kill myself like I have in the past. Lol. Same day same fins. This is the last part of the end section after about a 3 foot overhead drop a hundred yards out the back… nice to link up a few turns and highlines to really feel out a fin. I wanted to lay some weight into a turn to see how solid they felt so used this end bowl to set it up. If they don’t slide, drag, or hum… I’ll ride 'em…
