Finless boards? As I’m sure you would imagine I’m not really looking forward to this trend lol. Speaking of fins, Maurice, we currently offer 2 of your templates. They were Red-X fins, made to fit into the Lokbox system. We call them the LBX1 and LBX2 you can see them on our site www.lokboxfins.com under fins, then LBX series. Mr. Brian Bulkley absolutley loves the LBX2’s in glass for his quads. Runs all 4 the same size/template. Cheers and thanks, everyone loves the templates…Jim
Hi Jim
I have used your system and its great,I have a tech problem now,I use over 1" of concave between fins ,in s/bds and tow bds and the only system I can use is redex,as its the only system that is narrow enough to fit into the angle of the concave off the rail,and worse still,the deeper the concave the better the bd -we might need some tech back up in future if a part of the market ebraces these designs,
Hi Maurice, thanks for your reply. Us fin guys have an interesting time keeping up with you shapers. But that’s the progression of surfing, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Custom angled fins aren’t a big problem for us, so it could probably work. Without one in front of me I couldn’t promise you anything. If your getting Red-X to work fin angle wise I’d tend to think it could work. Maybe I need to order a board. Always wanted one anyways. I’ll dub it the GP model (guinea pig). 
Really an inch? I’ve never taken it that far: maybe a half to 5/8 on a tow and 3/8 + on a shortboard. The best thing I rode this year, and possible ever, was a 6-4 x 19 1/2 quad, with slight spiral V (double in single convave at mid board) transitioning to a slight rolled V before fins to a flat after fins, to single concave off the tail. Nothing more than a 1/4-" overall …very subtle transitions, which the sander easily could ruin. I can imagine hooking and funneling water on a narrow tow board in extreme conditions, but on a shortboard? What are the dimensions and rocker like?
Maurice,
Were some of the boards you referred to (e.g 3’6") being ridden stand-up or were some also ridden prone as with the alaia boards.
I have seen some stills of alaia being ridden on a very cheesy island - are these in the film you are referring to?
regards
Bob
Quote:
all standing up!!!there is 1x 8 wave at supa tubes-j-bay of him riding a finless 4’ 6" driving off the bottom,360 in the lip,pulls into barrell and pops out!
I ride a 6’2"x 20 1/4 x 3…up to 10’ bells ,the bd has redex( I buy all my own fins etc fromredex and am not paid by them in any way or form) finsystem with customised future G10 Vector’s.set straight like a towwbd…I"concave between fins the rest of the bd has 1/2" concave…tail @15 1/2"…pod @ 6 1/2", I move my fins heaps and in bigger surf have them completely asymetrical!
From about 1972 concave tails were made on non gun high performance shortboards of their time period.
You cant get a more reverse vee effect than that.
This is not about what Maurice was doing later just that vee out the back was not all that was being done in the past.
Kendall or someone should have an old picture of Brewer on a lawn with a yellow sting swallow tail with a concave tail from one of the mags mid 70’s.
Those were good times back then as well.
Maurice,
I’m really stoked to see you posting here. Most of my boards have the traditional flat to vee bottoms that have been around forever, but I was pretty blown away at the amount of concave, 1/2"-1" you put in your boards. The only time I ever fooled around with concave was when there was a resurgence of the Bonzer bottom in the early 90s, when a few of the Hawaiian shapers (Rawson and Minami) were utilizing the design with a standard thruster fin set up. I guess I’ve strayed away at doing the in vogue single to double concave because I could never really envision the configuration in my head. My question is, do your concaves follow the rocker of the board, or do they follow a different curve (I always assumed they followed their own curve, straighter than the original rocker). I’ve always felt you needed vee to bank a board from rail to rail, but it seems it is really not needed. Anyway, thank for posting…hope to see you here in the future.
Very interesting read this.
Does Mitch Rae post on Sway’s?
I’m sure He would have some insightful comments on deep concaves running into flat flex tails like he was doing mid 70’s. Those were fast and deadly tube tools!
Where else but here can you hear history being told by those who made it. It’s like a treasure chest.
Cheers
Mooneemick
Agreed,
This thread has been my favorite read since it first posted.
Science before ego is the lesson I’ve learned. But heck everyone (including especially scientists) gets that order backwards sometime. I’m not a scientist, but I’m no exception either. haha
Also it is entirely possible that the tech developed in different peoples minds simultaneously across the world.
This happens all the time. Same data same conclusion.
Fact “everyone” was riding flat to vee so the data was everywhere. Hey this board goes faster when I put pressure over the flat spot…hmm what if? I’m pretty sure those who have been talking here are pretty close to the real event. So this has the ring of truth.
However, unless someone can document the exclusivity of their contribution (currently only a patent can do that) it’s best to share and share alike.
That said it’s still nice to see shapers come together and timeline their ideas and develop a somewhat historical biographical record.
Anyone ever heard the phrase this goes on your permanent record? Well this is it. So; Keep the shiny side up.
Maurice,
could you post some of your board designs the new concave bottoms rocker profiles ect also these new finless boards would assume the finless are some sort of keel shaped in the foam and tow boards?what are there limitations if any would assume that the speed of the tow and wave would make them viable but as those factors decrease what gives them the drive? and there relationship to paddle into wave boards for design or application your thoughts? aloha
Maurice,
see that you said they were tow sorry for the redundancy was curious cause in about 73 or 74 a shaper who walked away from it all made a paddle in finless board for someone that worked but never progressed as finned boards are so much simpler aloha
I had a concave tail board in '72. Owl shaped it. I was riding for the Brewer camp at the time, and for those that don’t know, today’s concave came from that particular Brewer design. But that isn’t a reverse vee … or anything like it. Fact is that vee, whether your talking spiral, blended, reverse etc. did dominate design for a very long time, from the late 60’s to the early ninties. Because of my Brewer roots, I rode almost all concave tails since that first one I had in the 70’s. And concave was done all along but never was popular or even anything close to mainstream. Should have been.
Well - I’m stoked to read my latest board isn’t just my own weird “rip off” of the HIC converter, but something others find to work well too. I’m also stoked to read others like the RedX system, and like to ride with fins all over the place… Stoked to be able to control the speed the deep channel(s) provide with fin placement.
I’ll go a head and beg John M. to post pictures if he has 'em - I’m not to proud to say I like the channel, and I like the MVG’s! Ha! “It’s no gimmic, it’s science baby!”
Taylor
There were 2 situations and comments made on this thread ,one about who was first and the stealing of the reverse vee design which was exsposed to be BS.
I showed the common occurence of claiming and smidging with the twins i showed.
You made a strong statement and for those who didn’t know cutting edge non vee tails never existed before Maurice’s reverse vee .
I never put vee from the fin back since 1972 and i am not alone.
After Maurice things did change radically, boards and market.
In the winter of 1970 - 71 i was ridding a single to double concave 7’3" diamond tail at Rincon
There were a few of us making these but they did not fit into the market for another 20 years
I was told and this is why i made it that Joey Cabell won the Duke on a board with this bottom back then.
Your own view on design was formed from these times please don’t ommit their pressence.
I love reading your take on things as I love to go back and hear all the design/cabell(one of my design/wildman/heroes) and other great moments in surfing,its like crediting simon anderson with the thruster-heaps of people surfed different types of TRI set ups,but Simon,without any outside design influences,made a quantum leap foward with his thruster set up…its just trying to keep the history of surfing and design away from the “SPUN NURSES” more history please-still no reply from Bill?
Maurice, with due respect, we have had a steaming heap of feuding in the past, and we all seem to be happy without. Love ya bro and Bill too.
greg