for people just learning to surf or trying to get to an intermediate level...put them on a retro fish or short egg or something and you cant go wrong
shortboard
pros - small...easy to maneuver...light...no pearling...easy to duckdive
cons - a little more effort to paddle
longboard
pros - easy to paddle
cons - heavy...pearling...dangerous when you wipe out
Classic stuff…
Short board +/- on a web site… If you are that clueless you probably shouldn’t be thinking about it… you should be learning about ocean safety…
Rental beginners have to get picked up by the coast guard heli on a regular basis here, and they are the lucky ones… people die.
I learned on a short board ala the Doc method - only there was no Doc to hip me to anything… Full trial and error, and, aside from having a leash, it was kinda like Mike’s story… Once I actually started paddling out by people.
I only feel a little bad for the surfscience guys… If they have good intentions, they are mostly lost here… Ha!
A beginning surfer and a kook are NOT the same thing. Not all people learning to surf are kooks. A kook is someone who, after their first hour long lesson with 25 other people at cowells decides to move up the point and go out at middle-peak, putting others and themselves at risk. A kook is someone who tries to paddle out at ocean beach for the first time on a double overhead day on a 6’2" (or better yet a twin fin fish) to impress his friends from the east bay on the beach. A kook is someone who takes a one hour lesson on a soft top then reads about the science of surfing on the internet and thinks that they are a real surfer. A kook is someone with limited experience in the water (weather on a surfboard or not) telling other people what to do and how to act.
I’m not claiming to be an expert or anything but I always do my part to help inform and educate people with less experience than myself. I’ve been surfing most of my life and have worked in the manufacturing side of the industry for many years. I always take the time to show newbies around the factory and explain to them everything that is going on in there and why. Whenever a beginner comes to me for a new board I spend almost an hour explaining to them the different aspects of surfboards and their design and purpose, and make sure they get a board that will work for them, weather it is the “In” shape or not. In my view this is how you help, not by putting up a website and spoon feeding people crap. IMO these types of websites along with surf schools are kook factories. If you want to learn to wax a board just ask someone, or look at the other surfers on the beach, how is their board waxed?
Don’t act like you made your website out of the goodness of your heart, you started it to make money, plain and simple. And it’s the way you make that money that I take issue with. It’s by peddeling cheap crappy boards and misinforming people around the world. If you want to give people bad info do it at your home break, that way when they paddle out with six friends to “get more waves” or do other stupid shit like that you only have yourself to blame. By putting this stuff on the internet you are polluting surf spots around the world with your own personal brand of kooks.
Well, I’m done, I must admit I feel a little better…
peace,
the biggest KOOK of all
Don't act like you made your website out of the goodness of your heart, you started it to make money, plain and simple. And it's the way you make that money that I take issue with. It's by peddeling cheap crappy boards and misinforming people around the world. If you want to give people bad info do it at your home break, that way when they paddle out with six friends to "get more waves" or do other stupid shit like that you only have yourself to blame. By putting this stuff on the internet you are polluting surf spots around the world with your own personal brand of kooks.
exactly
Thanks for the feedback. We’ll keep working to improve the quality of our content. I appreciate all the helpful advice via PM, we’ll do our best to make sure SurfScience keeps moving in a positive direction. If anyone else has any specific points of concern or sees any factual erros, feel free to PM us and bring it to attention.
Also, if you would like to help out by becoming one of the experts we talk to about the submitted “Ask A Scientist” questions, let us know and we can talk about your areas of expertise.
See. Here’s the thing and I’m afraid it shows where you’re coming from- Rick Kane and Chandler are not real surfers (with all due respect to Griffin). They are characters in a B movie. A surfploitation movie. I’m afraid that is what your site does- exploit surfing for commercial gain- or at least that is how it will be perceived by most long time surfers. All surfers who have a few years under the belt will resent that, despise it and certainly not respect it.
But hey,at least you took off that piece about how to handle crowds with the advice to bring a pack of friends.
And the 2000-3000 people how google “how to wax a surfboard”? They must be retarded and should not be encouraged to clog the already overcrowded line ups.
That’s my humble opinion.
Haha, yes, I realize its a silly movie. One point to consider is that surfing has the perception of being a sport with an inside crew that makes many people feel like outsiders. That is intimidating for many people and probably explains why they don’t go seek someone with more knowledge to show them the ropes.
I rembmer even 10-15 years ago there were more surf shops that had a lot of local guys that would show you the ropes. The kind of places where people went to hang out instead of just to shop. I would love to see more of that today.
One comment I really liked was that we should talk about doing some articles on how to find a shaper. I think that will be an upcoming series. I’ll do some leg work and track down a few guys that have been doing custom boards for 20-30-40 years and talk to them about the process of getting a custom board. That would be good info for surfers and help send money towards hard working shapers. Thanks for the tip.
Obviously financial gain has a part to play in any business. It costs money to host a website, to pay designers, to drive to meet people etc. That stuff is paid for by ads. The same way Swaylocks has ads. My question would be, in your mind, at what point does one stop making money from working hard in a surfing related business and begin exploiting surfing for money. I don’t think there is a right answer, its just an interesting premise I’d love to hear thoughts on from a few guys that have been around longer than I. Maybe this needs a new thread…
In your opinion which of the following exploit surfing for money and which do it right? Shapers, surf camps, surf trip leaders, surf hostels, surf shops, clothing companies, gear companies, shoe sponsors, drink sponsors, pros, pop our board makers, surf films, Hollywood movies about surfing, blogs, forecasts, surfing news, surf art, surf photography, shaping branded boards to go in liquor stores or resturants?
The only thing anyone needs to go surfing is a surfboard. Surfboard shapers are the essential facillitators.
All the rest is BS and we all know it.
The surf school shouldn't be automatically placed in the kook category. It has it's place, mainly because many of them are owned and or run by experienced and ex pro surfers, and all they want to do is pass on the stoke of surfing to people who are wanting to learn.
Not everyone can hang down the beach and just befriend a good surfer, and not many of those good surfers want to hang out and teach people the in's and out's to someone who doesn't know.
I learned the long hard way and I think I gained a better understanding because of it. But most of my ocean knowledge came from my dad who did have the patience to teach me the where's and how's to catch a wave. That was bodysurfing, and in my mind if you can't bodysurf then you need to learn because that's where it all starts.
As for riding shortboards, I still do. I love the sensation of the shortboard, other boards just don't do it for me.
The cons are it's difficult to ride 2' slop, especially at my age. But it can be done, and I definitely get more thrill out of doing one good turn than trimming to the beach 10 times.
All personal choice I guess.
Hey Mr. Science,
The thing that blows me away is that you always answer criticism with thoughtful responses. You have my respect for that. I’m kind of used to reading the forums at Surfermag where mindless insults are the rule. I guess to answer your response…about business- I think I’d just try to find a business that is not dependent growing the numbers of surfers. As you know, or will soon find out, the spirituality of the surfing experience, the joy, is pretty much inversely proportional to the number of people in the water. Crowds can kill stoke in a hurry. I think making surfboards doesn’t really increase the numbers, and most surfboard makers are not into it for money. I guess it is totally seflish of us that are in the “club” to want to restrict membership.
Of course that said, I’m really hoping my daughter will one day start surfing.
Maybe the best business one could do that wuld really help the sport would be to develop artificial reefs where miles and miles of closed out beach breaks turn into world class reefs and relives the overcrowded line ups.
,
exactly. way to take some blows there. I say, that if some kook reads about how to not be an ass ( and practices what he read) out in the line up from your site, then you have done a service. The “scientist” theme is a bit cocky though. Maybe a little more modesty would get you further?
My workshop is the Low Tech Lab...
A long time ago this name was given to me by other Swaylock's members....I am the Low Tech Lab.....
I became the Low Tech Lab long before BenTom and SurfSiDude came on board...Hi tech people....funny...
BenTom proved himself...I am impressed
...So........ Mr. SurfSiDude .....Are you surfing a short longboard or a long short board...
Hello Mr SurfSiDude...Post up some boards pal...LET'S SEE EM! Where's the photos?......
I'm not calling you a kook....but...........................my friends say you're a kook..........
I fix um, shape um. glass um...I like Ice Cream too...What do you do?
Ray
I predict this thread will turn into a train wreck. I just know. I’m telepathetic.
(I saw that on the web and thought it was funny as heck.)
from Tom Wegener’s site, http://www.tomwegenersurfboards.com/html/alaia.html:
In ancient times, kids learned to ride waves on the shortest boards. This way they learned swimming skills and how to work with broken waves. As the surfers progressed in skill they moved to longer boards and learned to stand on them. It is unlikely that anyone of our time will fully comprehend how good the ancients could surf, but from what I have seen in three short years of riding the alaia, I suspect that the ancients were impressive, to say the least.
Now, people start surfing on long boards that are very easy to ride. Angling is a given with a finned board and skill is thoroughly compromised with the leash.
I appreciate that.
As for the name. I see how people feel that me calling myself a scientist is cocky. When I first had the idea of the name though, the way I thought of the term was as one who looks for answers, not one who has them. I grew up with parents that were scientists and they spent years trying to find an answer, never did they think they had it figured out and as they found one, they would then search for the next. That is how I appraoch surfing.
I like wikipedia’s current definition: “A scientist, in the broadest sense, is any person who engages in a systematic activity to acquire knowledge”
Those of you I have interviewed in person know that all I do is ask questions. Constantly. I ask others, I ask myself and I ask my boards.
Someone asked what type of surfboard I ride and my answer is: yes.
I ride anything I can get my hands on. I go to garage sales and spend money I don’t have on boards I probably don’t need because I get stoked on an old McCoy, Hobie or Lightning Bolt that I can’t wait to see how it handles. I have thrusters, fish & logs. I SUP when its flat to enjoy the ocean. I made an alaia just to see what the fuss was about.
Thats why I like the idea of writing articles about the pros and cons. I know some days I just want to fly and drop buckets and I grab my 6’4". Other days I feel goofy and I go grab something thats older than me and ride it like I’m from a different generation. I think most people at Swaylocks are smart enough to know when to ride what type of board, but there are guys that rip shortboards that would never pick up a log. I bet you 8 of the WCT’s top 10 guys haven’t ridden a longboard in the past year. They are missing out.
Surfing is like dancing. There are different styles and none is better. The waves are like music, you need a certain type for each dance and if you try to force a dance into the wrong type of music, by surfing a board the wave (or your physical ability) doesn’t like, you will just end up off tempo.
I agree with Wildy, surf schools are a good way to get started. I’ve just been thru summer in the southern hemi and surfed more beachbreak than point and therefore seen more surf schools - one in particular I’ve seen a lot of and has been getting its students out rain or shine. They seem to achieve
SurfScience, I’ve taken a look at some, but not all of your website and my suggestion for what its worth is to aim it more at the beginner and explain a lot of the safety aspects and dangers. Emphasise using a school (and you do advocate that, so good on you). You also advocate use of soft surfboards which I think is a good thing. But there are things such as how to recognise a rip and get out of one. Staying under water until the pull on the leash can be felt to avoid the board popping up and hitting the head etc.
things start to get more complicated and end up as personal preferences when surfers get into the more experienced and advanced stages.
My disagreements are with your paddle smart suggestion - there is a good case for not sprint paddling out to the lineup all the time when energy needs to be conserved. Also the s-stroke does not work for everyone - its a waste of time for me.
The skateboard training has some comments which are odd to me - such skating being front footed, but one board being good for the back foot - specific tricks excepted its mainly even foot for me so that may be a preference thing. Also the attempt to compare skateboards with certain types of surfboards doesn’t really ring true with me. Also I don’t think a cruiser type board is good for bowls - nothing beats the popscicle for that. One of the boards being good for “inverted” riding sounds highly questionable - you mean the old school invert?! Surely not over-vert transition?
the board recommendation software needs some work - I filled it in as accurately as I could and got a modern fish type board which I definately don’t want. The Cole diamond tail looked more like it, but I can’t get that down under anyway. However definately a bug in the software was the board recommendation meant for disabled people.
Two nights ago TCM showed Gidget....never seen it in it's entirety. While watching I thought of this thread and how things have evolved.
WOW!
Do any of you remember when our boards were shaped by a guy named Stinky and we all paddled into the same wave together, led by Kahuna who surfs with a stogie in hand and hat on head?
Oh yeah, that was a Hollywood movie, not real life. Is the internet real life? Some people think so.
I guess that me, an overfed long haired sleeping gnome, will never be the star of a Hollywood movie (or the internet).
SurfSci, it’s not the exploitation factor which I have a problem with, make money off surfing in any way is exploiting it in my mind. What I have a problem with is the way your website (and others like it) commodify surfing, it turns surfing and being a “surfer” into something that you can go buy at a store for a price- almost ALL surf schools are the same way IMO. Thats what I mean when I say that nothing is sacred any more. While much of the info you provide is insubstantial, by posing as a “Surf Scientist” you lead people to believe that they are on the path to becoming real “surfers”. This seems evident from your moto: “Learn more. Surfing better.” Learning more and surfing better can only be done by going out and doing it. All dedicatided surfers have amassed volumes of knowledge about the spots they surf, knowledge they have gained from years and decades spent in and around the ocean. You propose that by going on your website and clicking around people can attain the same knowledge that many of us have spent much of our lives earning and that they will start to surf better. It’s this attitude of instant gratification without any of the work that really just rubs me the wrong way, and nothing you can do with your website will change that for me. I gotta say also, the way that everything is written on your site just seems rather kooky and inexperienced
That being said I don’t know why you dont talk about what IMO is the only real hard science involved with surfing: Oceanography. You should teach people about how waves are generated and how they travel. Talk about fetch and wind speed, about great circle paths and wave decay and about wavelenght and seafloor topography. Teach them how to read a bouy and what it means. Show them how to make their own forecasts rather than relying on surflines “poor, fair, good, ect” reports. I believe there are far too few surfers out there who really understand that stuff (I hope you are not one of them otherwise I really have to question your eligibility of running a website called surf science).
You could also teach them about ding repair (not that product selling crap you have on your site now). You actually discourage people from doing their own ding repairs, then say that if they are going to fix themselves to use solarez (product plug, do you get paid for that?) with milled fibers. I don’t know about you guys but when I was fixing dings I HATED it when people brought me boards that they tried to fix themselves by putting a huge unsightly gob of solarez on which I then had to grind out. Teach them how to do a legit ding repair without selling them some crappy product, they will respect you for being sincere (and not selling them a product they don’t need) and we will respect you for not looking like a total sell-out.
I do’nt know, I didn’t want to knock you without providing any suggestions so there are a few, hopefully they are useful.
Peace,
KOOK