PU or EPS or XTR choice for durability?

I have had only Pu/Pe boards so far… normally with heavier glass and polish ( 6’- 6 8"eggs and fish)

Most of my boards suffer from pressure dings from travel , head, feet, knees etc. Particularly on the deck around the fcs plugs form my feet and knees (when duck diving)

I am not so worried about weight as durability …Would EPS or XTR with epoxy be more resistant to pressure dings assume finished board was glassed to a similar weight?

Would an extra patch on the deck in the tail area upset the balance of the board

What should I be asking my shaper/glass job for ?

It depends on the glassing schedule. If you want a real durable board and still light there’s nothing better than a compsand. I started making board because I was sick of a board’s deck being totally cratered after half a season. My first compsand from about 4 years ago is still like new, no pressure dents. check out www.compsand.com.

XTR/XPS is good stuff…dense and floaty…but doesn’t have the memory of EPS…I think of it as an enhanced version of PU.

2lb EPS with epoxy and patching where necessary is awesome and does not upset the balance.

Compsand takes it a step further.

I’ve been joking with Griff about reproducing that with loincloths and alaias…hahaha

I always got great durability with 2# EPS with a double 4 bottom and double 6 deck. But, IMHO and for my money the best is Timberflex construction:

1.5 # density EPS

Bamboo bottom, nothing under 4 oz over

Deck, 4 oz under the bamboo, 4 oz over

I’ve ridden plenty of surfboards in my day, this is far and away the best both in durability and performance.

BTW … get ready for T-flex II. I’ll be posting new improvements here soon.

Tangent…

I skipped the veneer on the bottom and only did single 4oz with a patch in tail region…granted, I had epoxy glue lines (PMD thread), the bamboo top, with 4oz + 4oz patch on deck side left me with a lighter, cheaper and super lively board.

Maybe not as bulletproof, but fantastic nonetheless!

I’ve seen this tangent done as well. In fact Sam Barker has done a few. I think he did 6 bottom on his though. They came out nice. The improvements coming will shorten build times and use standard single stringer EPS blanks instead of WMD. Real easy, fast shaping and then easy bagging. We’re also working on a resin that gets you out of the bag real fast.

taking the tangent further…

Just wanted to throw this out there Greg,

I feel like a 2lb strigerless EPS blank has enough stiffness such that the relatively flexy 1/40" veneer (with or without glass backing) shouldnt mess with the rocker. I havent tried it, but if i had a the blank to do it I would. Last time I backed veneer for a deck with 4oz glass it was plenty flexy that I dont think it would have tweeked the rocker of a 2lb stringerless EPS. I bring this up because I dont like stringers, but do like the idea of no rocker bed. Im all about multifunctional materials, i.e. materials that serve structural and durability purposes… exoskeleton. Stringers just feel like lost weight to me. Light core, beefy structural and durable exoskeleton… now im just talking compsand?

lookin forward to Tflex v2

I agree which is why I am now using 1/16th stringers. Just enough to feel confident about the rocker in the bag. Your comment about the exoskeleton is spot on … VERY spot on. Interior weight is in most cases a waste. As endoskelton beings most people don’t actually realize that an exoskeleton is superior in every way but one.

After riding compsand and now riding T-Flex, I’m of the opinion that T-flex is better than a compsand sandwiched with foam. Going back to Bert for a minute, his claims were always that wood was the magic ingredient. “Flex return using a product that flexes and returns for a living is always going to be superior.” His words. So I wholeheartedly agree now that this is the case. I’ve ridden it and I’m sure. Even Firewire is moving in that direction and with our crew of T-Flexers in FL we’re pretty sure that we can can safely say that this direction is correct.

If we look at the sports, the sister sports, and see their direction, it’s pretty clear:

Snowboards - wood composite cores

Skateboards - wood cores

Sailboards - EPS/d-cell cores with wood composite laminates

Kite boards - urethane cores with wood composite laminates

Each is moving toward a building scheme which gives that vehicle the best performance and durability. Each is now incorperating wood. In the case of skateboards and snowboards, flex is a big deal. They are specifically using wood for it’s flex return properties. The other two are more interested in it’s durability excellence.

So where does surfing end up? IMHO we know, don’t we? Those of us who have done the testing already know the results.

full circle…

Do it for your avatar, that would be classic.

SIAM, I recommend the Timberflex build if possible. In my experience it almost completely eliminated all your issues and improved performance (and looks nice).
I am very hard on boards and often buckle them so I have surfed the $hit out of my Tflex to test her and can’t believe how well she is holding up.

Stoked to here about TF-2, I am looking forward to that.

I can picture it right now… you and griff looking out at 26th st closeouts at sunset in loincloths with alaias. I think we have your new avatar…

slash… i wrote my response the same time you did… note times in our posts. hahaha

I never really had a problem with PU/Pe construction. All my Pu/Pe boards are 6 bottom 6/4 deck.

When I switched to 2# EPS foam / RR epoxy Resin I also switched to 6 bottom 6/6 deck. No real problems. I still crush the boards on the rails with my death grip…That’s normal for me…I’m happy with the product…

I’m working with some veneer stuff…looking good…I’m not riding one yet so I can’t really say…

When all the Pro Lurkers get the wood skins dialed in… the average surfboard is going to change in a BIG way!!!

You saw it first on Swaylock’s

Ray

I use #2 Marko with single 6 bottom, 2X6 deck, and I have pressure dents, but no delams after 2.5 years of hard use. It’s my daily rider. My favorite standard construction choice for glass bill and foam choice for strength and performance.

2lb with 6 bot 2x6 top was my favorite build until I saw how easy it is to suck a veneer onto 1.5.

The pressure dents are no longer an issue and you end up with a lighter, stronger board, not to mention ascetics and performance.

If you get a chance, it is worth a go.

The build is much easier that it appears.

cough cough

Ray and Slash have seen the light … you guys know … It ain’t even close.

I’ve heard really good things about XTR in all respects including durability. Still haven’t made one for myself yet though so all I can go by is what I have heard. But from all accounts it’s good stuff!

I’m going to fly the flag for EPS with carbon fibre and epoxy.

Both my carbon fibre boards made by Dick Van Straalen have proved themselves extremely strong which means no problems about heel denting.

The weight of my current carbon 8’er is fairly close to the weight of my poly 8’er with resin tint (both made by Dick) but the carbon fibre board blows the poly into the weeds performance wise. My poly 8’er has not been ridden since I got the carbon 8’er and up until then I ridden it almost every surf in the best waves we’d had here in a decade.

Plenty of discussion on here in other threads about carbon fibre boards but and this is the crucial thing, none of the posters have been talking about Dick’s carbon fibre boards. He’s done the R&D with Rasta and he has it worked out.

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