I wonder how two side by side boxed fins (or glass on) would go in the center like Dennis Ryder has done instead of the usual rear quad options?
Now THAT could be a real journey!
…hello man, reading your last extense comment,
I see that almost all what you say is known by us shapers (at least the ones that do custom orders and the big names, I guess) in a kind of empirical path.
I never did the kind of experiment with bunch of fins that you did but my thought was similar except that for put more than 5 fins and think is faster. I still have doubts about it; you say in WSurfing, but the speed is totally different and not so much aoa every second; but I really can imagine the lift in the tail of those wsurfboards and the propulsion.
Do you remember that board that G. Winton used in several championships? 10 fins? I dont remember well.
the Twins with small base and less raked with less tip area is kind of obvious that turns quickly
plus, normally those boards had reduced tail area, due wings.
Or the quads with fins too much near the rails and spreaded super wide in wide tail areas…its obvious in which way it will perform
-Im not really into overlap fins
I made bunch of bonzer type boards in performance shapes from small shortboards to semiguns to lboards and overlapping side fins is not the way in my opinion (to surf hot)
I made several quads with glass ons that have the rear fins smaller and Im in the way to move them a bit closer to the front ones to compensate for the base losed
but notice that I put gobs of tail rocker and sometimes kick tails on its (under the feet of hot surfers) and I prefer rounded tail outlines for that purpose, I have always mini eggs orders with that combo.
A real journey could be put 2 side fins side by side; so you have 4 fins, 2 per side.
Parallel and/or playing around with toe in too
Actually both this thread and Kayu's are interesting enough and if I don't want to read them I'm not under court order to do so. I guess I'm starting to understand; Industry Giants get to do whatever they want. Better to have the Industry Giants over here than clogging it up for us amatuers over on Gen. Discussion. Design, Build, Ride.
What I really think? I love to hear the sound of my own voice and see myself in print.
well for the people posting on here the 40yr coocon does not apply’’
but for you you seem to be totaly encased?
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** cheers huie**
Huh? Say what?
Industry giantzzzzz… where? Who is they? What logo? How much branding and magazine advert budget?
When I created “The Surfing Underground” in the old Radon Boatyard, it was in the spirit of the small guy… surfboards built for every man, like Wilderness… like John Bradbury by himself behind Bob’s Glass Shop on Gutierrez Street.
Greenough’s name grew to legendary status based on the things he did… he never placed an ad. Neither did Bradbury. These guys were pure, and they were my heroes until our ‘age gap’ narrowed and we became friends versus icon and admirer. Funny how that works.
The thing about pedestals… they isolate while elevate.
This is good stuff. I don’t know why this is in the Industry Talk forum.
I’d love to read Robin “Handshaper” Mair’s thoughts on this. From communication with him, and my own experiences, I’m sold on four fins on the rail, and about an inch gap fore/aft. As I wrote before, I could feel the drag start to come into play when my fore/aft spread hit 1 1/2".
As for center fins, my own hypothesis is, the angle of the center fin is always in angular opposition to the side fins. I’ve written this too: I rode the same waves, same/similar enough boards, tri then quad… The tri was slower and lower in the pocket. I feel the “opposition” of the center fin makes for easier snap type turns, but I’m finding it can be over come, as Dead S. has pointed out, with changes in tail design, and fin shape.
Ha… using the word “opposition” will get some stalwart thruster-heads all riled up!
However, it’s a good use of the word. Also your observation about tri fins being slower & lower in the pocket. I look at thrusters as an extension of a single fin with increased rail leverage. This equates drive.
Quads have increased rail leverage too which also equates to drive… just, as you point out: a different kind of drive or we could call it ‘angle of attack’.
Beyond that, we can start mixing the quad cocktail with lots of different ingredients that can be fun to play with: fin combos both in size and types of foil, toe ins & cants, tightening or spreading the cluster along with proxiity to the rails.
All those ingredients are RICH in possibilities not to mention you could set up your quad formula assymetrically for your fore and backhand surfing!
I say anything that leaves us open to create is a great thing to keep the evil stagnation monster at bay!
P.S. It’s okay to pose, but I’d rather require a fast shutter speed! 
Hey DS - Thanks for the reply. I love the differences I can make on the same board just by changing fins/positions. And, I’m all about the asym set up for toe/heel differences - I even try to shape the side differently in the tail, but I think I get way more effect by adjusting the fin positions.
Thanks for keeping the stoke for innovation going. It’s funny that some folks get worked up over what… Fun design experimentation?!? When I first came to sways I was blown away by those who were so focused on Clark blanks, Skill planers, and a perfect symmetrical finish. Kind of funny to me as Dale Solomonson “sent” me here, and for years before that he’d told me about his relationship with George Greenough, and how George was all about innovation, and bondo, and 320 grit finishes… Ha!
Anyway - Thanks again and keep up the great stuff…
Yup, Bondo the miracle material. You can change contours and edges in a matter of minutes right on the beach. We used this method while racing sailboards from run to run.
Early day stuff that was precursor to channels: we had 3M Mystic tape and straightened out wire coat hangars. We’d snip the length we want tape them straight or curved as desired in spots along the bottom and go see what they would do.
Weights on the nose with flattened fishing weight, drill a hole thru them, Create a hole and thread that you can screw the desired weight and blow your mind at the different length of arc and inertia you get between1,3, and 6 ounces.
And yes, sanded bottoms since early 80’s… riblets, aka rivulets… wicked fast when planed up!
Well I posted this reply in 2007. It’s now 2011 and I ride quads exclusively on my board now. Previously longboards I made for myself were 2 + 1. What really interests me about this thread that DS started is his mention of leverage and that you can obtain leverage with quads as well. I never thought of “rears” as leverage. Thanks DS.
Ditto.
**Well, here we are NOW. That was then. Now look, people are out there riding anything and everything. From 6, 5, 4 and NO fins. This is a good thing. We are on the cusp of new thinking. **
A renaissance is in the making.
Hallelujah,or however you spell it.