My new project is going to be a short fat stubby quad, got a template down on paper but would like to set out the fins. but would like to know rear fins off tail, front off tail , toe ins, cants. ?cpHss
this i find would be the best for stubbies:
http://www.hanaleifinsystems.com.au/resources/PDFDocuments/hfs_quad_fin_layout_2011.pdf
can always play around with it too, but is a good start.
hi Standishowl,
have you done a search? this topic has come up many times before… some people like the split thruster, some people like 'em all on the rail… do you have pics of the board / fins?
Using the back or trailing edge of the fin as a marking point; Try 7-1/2" for the rear fin and 11-1/2" for the forward fin. Toe-in can run from 1/8' to 1/4". Lay it out and then take a hard look at it with a straight edge from fin to nose. I toe and cant both fins the same. If your eye is any good; It will decide for you. This will put the fins on the rail. I don't do the other set up myself.. If it looks to you that the fins are too far forward for your taste pull them back to seven and eleven. The Hanalei Fins guide listed above is pretty close to what I'm suggesting, but it is better IMO to mark and measure you fins from the back edge. Just the way I was taught by a couple of well known glass shops. Generally speaking most fins have a four inch base. But not all.
…hello, 7 1/2 from tail is way too much on a shortie…
and I checked the .pdf, and have better dims
Be a man now Man. If you have better dims or dims that you think are better: Post'em! I was within 1/2 inch of those sited in the above posted link. I'm sure you have your opinion. If everybody did it the same, there wouldn't be two widely used setups.(at least) Everybody would be doing it like you. Don't keep it secret now. Inquiring minds want to know.
thanks very helpfull.
good man McDing, come on reverb, open that can of worms!!
(the pdf is not gospel!)
…“Be a man now Man” Im not sure what your trying to say with this sentence…
yes, I rechecked again the .pdf and those dims are not so good too.
The fins as a cluster have a lot to do with the back foot position, tail area and tail rocker. Also in some planshapes the type of tail outline is important too.
Have in mind that is not the same for a 5´6´´ than for a 7´
Sometimes, the only way to fix is with the fins themselves; I mean, types of fins (area, and rake)
But in most cases (except big guns) those measurements are way forward, compromising the other variables of the board; that by the way, are there to enhance or convert a board in a user friendly one.
While on the subject I'm shaping a 6'10" x 17 x 21.5 x 15 stubbie myself. I used the Liddle template you see below but it's going to be a flat bottom..
Sould I go with the Hanalei or Mckee quad setup?
[IMG]http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i287/ekim650/liddle.jpg[/IMG]
reverb, how far too forward do wreckon? thanks
nice looking template Ekim…
I’ve never shaped a board similar but, i’ve had really good experience with the “Hanalei / Probox Larry / Rail” quad setup on my shortboards.
the “McKee / Split thruster / Stringer” quad felt like the middle ground between the rail quad and a thruster with none of the benefits of either design.
just my $.02
I like this thread; but mostly because of the "Big Girls Bra" ad of to the right there. Wow! and double Wow!
Aloha reverb:
In your experience those measurements might be way forward but they are not based on my experience I literally build hundreds of boards with those measurements and nobody has any problems with them. The thing you have to be very carefully to look at when examining the measurements is the fin base measurement that is used as it is a lot shorter than what most people consider a standard base length (typically 4.50").
You are correct that the measurements do vary by board length and should also be determined based on the fin template chosen for the board. But my experience has shown that these dimensions are rock solid and form an excellent starting point, as I mentioned I use them all the time.
The interesting thing about these measurements is that the front fin placement is actually in the exact same position as a large number of thruster setups. In fact, I did a study of 100 thrusters when working on these numbers and they matched up with almost all of them. Hopefully you are reading the diagram correctly and realize that the measurements shown are to the LEADING EDGE of the fin, not the back of the fin, if they were to the back of the fin then I would agree wholeheartedly that they would be to far forward!
I prefer to keep track of the leading edge position as it allows me to better track the position regardless of the base length of the fin!
thanks for the input robin, i did use that layout recently and it looked just right. to me if it looks right, it should be right. feels spot on too. good to hear that setup has been seriously tested
thanks
Thank you Robin. You made my point. Although I use the back edge the numbers are still the same. Alot of guys use 41/2" for the base but that is a number that is assumed incorrectly. Fin base on almost any system is four inches. To get the 71/2:" I use for the back/trailing edge of the fin; I take the most often used number for the center fin of a thruster at 3---31/2' off the tail and then add the width of a fin base (fou rinches). This puts me at 7---71/2" at the back/trailing edge of the rear fins on a Quad. Add another fin base width of four inches and I am at 11-----11 1/2 " at the rear/trailing edge of the forward fins. ii is also right in that your eye doesn't lie. Stand back and take a hard llok at it. I use the trailing edge for my measurements purely because someone else taught me to do it that way. You are also correct in that the forward fins on a Quad will almost always wind up where the forward fins on a Thruster would be also.
Mahalo, McDing, glad to know I’m not the only one using these numbers, or at least ones close to them.
Like you I always look at the setup in relation to the board to see what my eye tells me, and to date it has never lied to me.
…so McDing, you say that you put your rear fins at 3 1/2 from tail?
3 1/2 + 4 (fin base)= 7 1/2
is that what you re saying or I am understanding wrong?
-I say that 7 1/2 is too much forward in relation to the back edge of the fins
BUT 3 1/2 is too back
so please explain those numbers
Ditto! Most of the time any adjustments I make are in relationship to cant, toe, distance between fins or the foil of the inside/rear fins(one side or double?). My knowledge is only based on what others have taught me. I respect your knowledge about these things because I know you have put way more time and thought into fins than myself. Mahalo and Aloha.
Sorry man. I stand on those numbers. 7 or 71/2" and 11 or 11 1/2". If we were in the shaping room I believe I could prove those #'s easily. Primarily because it would be easy to see. Online though it's just a debate.