I’ve just done my first Futures instal and it went off without too many dramas. I’ve now lammed the bottom and will probably get the deck and perhaps even the hotcoat done later today, everything going according to plan.
My question relates to getting the Futures boxes back out from under the glass. Just about every video or written description I’ve seen says sand the boxes back until they’re flush with the rest of the bottom of the board, but I was just wondering what people thought about doing this with a router instead? The sander with coarse grit is a relatively imprecise tool, especially in the hands of a backyard hack like me, whereas the router, if used (carefully) in a controlled environment, can be very precise indeed.
I have a small Makita plunge router that I use for all my fin box installations and it’s a great little tool. So, what I was thinking of doing goes a little bit like this:
Set up my fin box jig (pictured) over the Futures box allowing for no side-to-side movement.
Using a wide bit (18mm), do a single 1-2mm deep pass over the box.
Lower the depth by 1mm and do another single pass, and keep doing this until I’ve reached the desired depth.
Repeat for each of the five boxes.
Would this work, or would the high RPM rate, and the resulting heat, mess with the material that the Futures boxes are made out of?
So far it’s all gone (relatively) according to plan, but one slip with a coarse sander and it’s all going to go to shit. I’m willing to take the extra time to make sure I get it right. I just wanted to know whether there were any obvious reasons why I shouldn’t use the above method.
The plastic does mind being routed. I have used the router on futures boxes and a few times on some 10.5" boxes too, just to try it. It was no easier than sanding though. For what you are doing, it seems like a good idea.
Whatever works for you. I’m assuming the Basalt is not capped with a layer of 4 oz cloth. The issue seems to be that the Basalt has a tendency to fray like Aramid does if you hit it too hard with the sander??? The problem with the router is the high speed RPM’s. Like a lot of glassers I use a grinder and a rosin(sp) disk. Five inch or 4 1/2". I flatten the the lip on the box flush with the hotcoat. Then I flip the board over and grind the leash plug down flush as well… Once I do that I am ready to start sanding the hot coat. All your doing is grinding down flat to the hot coat. If Your fin box isinstalled correctly it is routed in such a way that the flange is just below the surface of the Blank. The Lam resin that is brushed into the routed cavity flows up thru the holes of the flange. If not; then the resin from your lamination willl fill the flange area. I think you are trying to do a two step process in one step with the sander. It’s a pretty simple process. My opinion is that you are complicating matters by using the router. But you wouldn’t be the first on this website to do that. Most glassers put there exotic fabrics under their lamination. Fraying is less likely that way and the point where the fabric ends is less noticeable.
Hey McDing, thanks for the input. I put football patches (4oz) over the boxes, then the basalt, then another layer of 4oz (full lam) over the basalt patch. So all up, there are actually three layers of glass over each box.
What was that you said about over-complicating it?
The flange is sitting at or under the level of the foam and the lip on the slot is sitting about 3-4mm proud of the surrounding foam. When you add three layers of glass on top, there’s quite a ridge sitting above the level of the finish sanded board. As you noted, the fraying and general messiness is what I’m trying to avoid and thought the router might be my best option, given my track record with a sander/polisher.
I’d like to get hold of an air-powered right angle die grinder for jobs like this, but we’ve got a big overseas trip coming up soon and I just can’t justify the expense.
I say no router for this …but…
You know what?
…you gotta go for it with tools you have and skills you have… Router is a good way for Stingray to F up…I’ll stick with sanding…
… and… I’m not chasing exotic cloth builds… But… My Vector net and carbon tape always goes on the foam with everything else on top…
McDing, If I understand what you are saying, aside from everything else. When you install futures, you do not grind the boxes down until after your hot coat? So lam the bottom and deck, then hot coat the bottom. Once hot coat has been completed, grind down the boxes flat to the bottom? Is the benefit of this, that you will not be sanding into your football patches over the boxes, and instead sanding the hot coat and trying to stop before hitting weave on football patches? If this process is what I’m thinking, I am intrigued to go this route.
Grind boxes before hot coat VS. Grind boxes after hot coat.
CUT the matrial with a razor along the top edge of the box and squegee/press the fabric down so only the box material (the channel) is highit will keep your basalt clean.
post install next time cass. Just sand it and hope for the best, if you have trapped air under there, the pockets are going to open up regardless of whether you sand it or route it.
A good trick if you want to run over the boxes with a fabric or opaque lam, is to grind the boxes down a touch which can minimise the tenting effect , and help prevent air bubbles which can’t be seen. I also mist some spray glue over the boxes and push the cloth around the box so it moulds/ sticks to the curves.
In my opinion; if you do a single six bottom, you do not need a football patch over the box. And as I said; the resin that is painted onto the box may or may not squeeze up thru the slots in the lip and fill the area of the flange. If it doesn’t your football patch or the hot coat resin will fill it to the level of the Blank. If I do a football patch I use four ounce. I grind just the box opening down level to the hot coated board and then proceed to sand the hotcoat. I would not have put a football patch on the fin box knowing that I was going to lay Basalt and a tail patch over it. This is the complication I refer to. If you have someone in the U.S. who can do it for you; the best die grinder for the money is $15 at Harbor Freight. Also if I remember correctly; Greenlight used to make a jig that could be used to knock down Pro-box fin boxes. Similar to what you are talking about doing. I have No problem doing it the way I do. So it makes no sense for me to introduce a third power tool to the process. Further complicating and adding another step.
The whole premise behind a Futures box is that it is stronger because it has a flange and is installed under the glass. That’s a given from the beginning. I grind my laps before the hotcoat. Fin boxes and leash plug are ground after the hotcoat for the reason you have stated. Lowel. PS-- if you were to grind a Black or Red or some other color of Futures box before the hotcoat; You may find little specks of color in your hotcoat.
Have already run into the colored plastic flakes getting stuck in weave of lamination and show up way more after hot coat. For whatever reason I didnt hate the look of it.
Will absolutely be following your steps to successful build!!
Thanks. Always solid advice from you, Lowel.
CasS, you can do as you explained without a problem if done with care. It will turn out cleaner but I myself use sanders and am a woodworker with a router fixation. Make sure you use a slow feed rate when cutting. If you have a speed control for the router, use it. Use care and good luck.
We grind the boxes prior to hotcoat. when we grind the laps. The grinder only spins 1 way… so you sand where the machine spins the dust off the tail, very little stays on the board.
We grind the boxes prior to hotcoat. when we grind the laps. The grinder only spins 1 way… so you sand where the machine spins the dust off the tail, very little stays on the board.
