I’ve looked through the fourm but I can’t find a specific description of this. For 50/50 rails for a log are the bands on the deck and the bottom the same(same width and number of passes)?
Leave a space in the middle. If you don’t you will have a “pinched” rail. 50/50 is one of the hardest rails to do and make look good. Takes some careful blending, especially at the nose and tail. Take a look at some classics like the Phil Edwards or Michael Hynsons Red Fin… Lowel
Since decks on blanks, unless you are using block EPS, are usually domed and bottoms are flatter you can not just take equal passses top and bottom. That would make it too easy.
Hey Lowell,
Silly me, are you saying 50/50 includes
Both the Hynson “red fin” and Hobie PE along with other HP logs had Knife rails (as I call 'em).
Being a Weber fool in the mid 60’s, eyeballed the Iggy model in the shop and some action @ 2nd point.
Great guy and those boards where killer.
The 50/50 deal came up and this came to mind.
Posted by PPK on Iggy’s passing.
Story and info:
“I walked into Dewey’s shop and asked him for a shaping job to which he simply said, “Sure,” and put me on the fire to see if I could actually cook, the fire being a shaping stand next to Harold Iggy, his star. Iggy was sweet to me. He gave me a quick primer on what he did, what was special about Weber boards, shape signatures and so forth, and then turned back to mowing foam. He had his own style. Most shaper banded rails, matching the bands on both sides for angle and taper, then blended them into smooth matching curves. Not Iggy. He curved the decks down to about a two-inch square on the sides that represented the outline. Then he took ahold of the end of the board, lifted it from one end and began rounding one rail, front to back with a sureform, then went back to front on the other side. Did each complete rail separately. Sanded it out, screened the rails. Viola! Done. I’d never seen it done so fast and easy. No painstaking side to side methodology to have the rails match. When he was done, the board was right. I was in shock. I did it my way for two weeks then moved south. But all my life I’ve remembered Iggy’s shaping technique as a life lesson. “Bra! Don’t make problem where no is.” He was a true classic and a good surfer too. –S.P.”
Having done it I can suggest it.
All (65-67 stock) the performers had Knife (or sharp) rails nose and tail blending into a soft 50/50 in the middle.
I am saying that those two could shape the prettiest 50/50 rails I have ever seen. HP logs are not usually 50/50, but 60/40. Weber and especially Iggy were masters. But Weber was a kid doing Buster Brown commercials when Phil and Michael Hynson got started. Lowel
Just mark the middle and take what you need off top and bottom to get there. Longboard blanks just aren’t that domed. It’s the blending that’s tricky. Lowel
Probably the Yo-Yo dude at that time!
Have a 63 ish Hobie PE have ridden it to near death and foddled it way too much!
The thing surfed so well (in good waves) I made a copy a while back…
Saying that blanks do not have enough dome in the deck to matter is well not quite right. IF I was to mark my blank after cutting outline and just put my center mark for a 50/50 rail I would not be 50/50. I put three marks in the center of board eye balling top and bottom from deck to bottom. Then I put a mark. Then I mark a little above and below that mark This is where I aim my first cuts. You can see that I have to take more from the bottom to get the flatness out of the blank. The bottom first set up cut is usually pretty deep it took awhile to realise how deep you could go. I was taught this by…Ah it does not really matter I am sure I am wrong anyway.
This was just a blank I rough cut for showing the rail set up I usually clean em up a little before going full bore.
glad I’m not the only one! Misery loves company.
good tutorial btw, thanx 4 sharing
Thanks for this. It does help. I figured I would mark the middle point from the flat bottom(1.5" up on a 3" board adjusted for nose and tail) and then make the two above below cut marks like you show so the rail isn’t so knifey.
And it really doesn’t matter I was taught that way by—. L
Harold thought that deck curvature was the key to a balanced shape (rail to rail) since the greatest amount of volume was there. If you got that right, it was just a matter of rounding the edges to 50/50, chine, etc. So unlike normal rail bands that propagate from the rail towards the stringer, Harold’s went from stringer to rail. Another reason for this was that he would go right to this reverse banding immediately following planing the thickness. Since thickness planing is straight passes, he would just transition the passes into tighter arcs as he moved towards the rail following the outline. Later he created a router fixture to cut the dome. These techniques were Harold’s response to Dewey who would try and squeeze him to 50+ shapes per week. Production shaping was the nice term for this.
Mark the rails like Ace showed no matter if they’re 50/50, 60/40, hard bottom, whatever. The center mark is the key, and should be there until you do your final light sanding of the rails because that is what’s holding your outline. Once you lose that mark, you have no idea where your outline is relative to the rail. When you see boards that don’t look even rail to rail when sighted down from the ends, it’s usually because the outline was lost while trying to get the rail right. This is why correct planer technique is important, the roughed out shape should have enough cuts so that all you need to do is sand down the sharp edges. Those edges are easier to use for checking that the shape is even on both halves. For 50/50 LB’s, I cut a narrow 45 degree band on the bottom, but stop about 12" from the nose and tail and do the rest by hand (later). This is done with the blank sitting on a rail at 45 degrees. Repeat for the deck side, then lay the blank flat and start progressively flatter angled bands until the planer is sitting normally and you’re at the thickness you established earlier.
Also not touching that “outline” band while planing makes it really easy to see and fix any wobbles that you missed earlier. You can see 'em real clear as the “band” changes size smaller larger dips valleys. It is just figuing out what to touch and what to leave alone.
Ace - I think I could simply eye ball top rail to bottom rail, or vs vs and it would work. What do you think? That said, I do use pencil, I even use calipers on places other’s don’t…
Here’s how: I could simply -plane my bottom band close to middle, plane deck similar…take the surform and block to blend, screen rails and call it done. Also, no two shapers will do any rail the same FWIW. Atleast - that’s how I’d go about it…
Mark it like ace’s pic and then make the necessary bands to get there. 2-3 bottom. 3-4 top. If you don’t leave the center as Petec says you are in danger of losing your template/outline. Leave too little in the center and your rail is pinched. I don’t see dome decks. I see the natural foil of the rail and deck on a molded blank. 50/50 rails are about nostalga any way. Not nearly as functional on any surfboard as a nice low 60/40. Lowel
I notice there’s a lot of leeway in using terms like “50-50”, seems like half the time it just means a nice round longboard rail, could be 50-50 or 60-40, or anything in the ballpark. All the terms in a shaper’s vocbulary are pretty arbitrary and subjective, IMO.
We used to call some “baseball bat” rails. I like a 55/45 rail. or a 76/24 . All I know is when I get done and I run my hand from nose to tail I got what I wanted.
I saw “Bing” yeah that Bing, he used to come on here too been awaile, at the beach one day. He was visiting OB for some reason. He had gone into the shop where I was shaping at that time. I asked did anybody recoqnise him, no he said. What were you doing “squeezing rails?” I asked. Yep, he said, how were mine I asked “pretty good” he said. One squeeze and those guys could tell if it was right or wrong.
Me too!
I’m a rail marker too.
Garry Linden taught me that.
Rails and the top as well.
When I do 50/50 rails, I mark the bottom as well.