It’s been a while since I’ve posted but I have a project and wanted some help thinking it through. I’ve missed Sways!
I’ve noticed that single-fin longboards often have a soft, rounded rear rail. To me this makes sense in that it helps–correct me if wrong–the back foot connect the rail with the wave and helps the rail to interact with the fin. That’s how it feels to me.
But most short single-fins I’ve seen have a hard edge in back, great for release. Why the difference?
I don’t know if there is a definitive answer, but if there is, it wouldn’t come from me, just a backyard hack / tinkerer here. But my thinking comes down to 2 factors, buoyancy and how the board is ridden.
The added buoyancy (and surface area too) of a longboard will make it tend to ride higher in the water than a shortboard. The shortboard with less volume and surface wants help to get up on plane, hence the hard - release - rails.
Further, the soft rails in back help keep the tail in the wave while nose riding, but shortboards aren’t ridden that way generally speaking.
What I’m trying to do is create an all-arounder single-fin that will fit in my car. I’d like it to be very versatile and suited for California waves, waist high to overhead. I know that’s asking a lot!
I’ve been looking at paipos and lazer zaps for inspiration and these have rounded rails in the back. Same with my favorite longboards. It seems to me that this would faciliate hold and might, with a bump in the outline, help to initiate turns as a single fin (so that “side bites” wouldn’t be missed). Down rails in the middle would make it plane higher, especially with concave.
But while this makes sense to me in theory (sort of), I’ve never seen it done and this makes me wonder …
They worked well in the right conditions but in my experience they were limited in their design. The first board I had was a 1970s Instinct single-fin (like 5’6’'!). Clean fast waves are fun, but add texture and some bogging sections and it’s not fun at all. Also with the pin tail it’s not real conduscive to backfoot-heavy California surfing, which is what I do.
What does fit in my car mean and why an all arounder single fin?
2+1 like a widowmaker or a longbox with sidebites adds so much to an all arounder board. I like the tucked under rail (images E-J, L depending on your deck being flatter or crowned) all the way. The tail can be a bit more squared off if you like. It’s all about that hard edge where the curve meets the bottom, it releases water instead of letting it wrap around the rail.
Look at the video of Tom Wegener talking about the modern short board. He talks about the rails.
Fits in the car means it’s going to be short. But it’s all relative. I’m thinking sub-6 feet. Single fin because I like the feel but I haven’t surfed a short one in a long time (lots of tris and twins lately). Also I’m going for something simple. Not perfect for specific conditions, but rather good in most conditions, which are waist to head high and occassionally overhead California waves.
I’ve seen Wegner talk about rails and it got me thinking along these lines. Then I saw a longboard by Jim Philips that had super rounded rails in the back and I noticed that my favorite longboard has the same. I saw another video with McCoy talking about it too, and unless I misunderstood, the implication was that the rear rail works with the single fin to improve hold and direction change. What would be trade-offs/benefits be? Got me thinking more. So I spoke with my usual shaper, and he said, “Skip Frye said release through the tail. Hard edges in back!”
You can’t compare longboard rails to shortboard rails. Also, you have to look at the bottom on those longboards. Is the bottom slightly rolled? Lots of longboards combine a slightly rolled bottom and a narrow 50/50 rail that some call pinched. The pinched rail has a small enough radius to allow the water to release. Hull boards use this type of rail.
A longboard uses the length and smooth rocker to give it speed, but you don’t have that with short boards.
The videos I’ve seen of McCoy explaining his rails talks about a hard edge starting from the fins, but a softer edge ahead of that. Wegener’s video about the modern shortboard is similar, the rails in the tail have to release water.
As far as hard edges all the way, I like them, but they are tucked under edges, so there’s a round component as well. I find these boards to be the fastest boards I have. I will start my edge about 12"-18" from the nose. My smallest board is 5’10" x 19.5" x 2.5"
Me’ll say better than the single, honestly we were testin’ some low area fins and the side bites came on to help prevent “slidin’ ass”.
So many variables it is difficult for me to understand why, what sparked the retro idea? Not sayin’ that it’s bad, I see pleanty of guys that are reliving the past and some stand out surfers enjoying the ride and doin’ it right.
IMO single’s are stiffer than what we have now, however “in the day” that’s really all we had, some of OLS’ best memories are single fin rides.
Now me’ll stick honorable neck out, CrawfordC you speak as though you can surf good enough and suggest looking into “Sunset Point” or Greg Griffin’s “Mini Simmons” answer. Note me thinks Greg is in France right now PM me if you would like the vitals.
The board I show in my post uses rails from my Griffin 5-fin fish, but the deck is fuller so they are a bit thicker.
The boards I have from Greg are like formula one racers, fast, great hold in turns, and lots of acceleration out of turns. I haven’t seen or tried that new design which Greg called his interpretation of a Mini-Simmons kind of board.
Hose little gg boards look like fun.
I shaped a little 5.9 eggy bonzer inspired board(almost a single fin) over xmas rails in the tail are fairly hard but not sharp. I’ve surfed it in knee hill peelers to 1.5oh doesnt like mush or whitewater. But hint of a wall an its off.
Pretty stoked on the board but wishing my glassing was tidyer maybe next time.
Thanks, I do everything on my boards, except when I need to bag a skin, then my brother helps me do that. BB30 did the skins and a lot of the glassing on the first handful of boards (compsands) I made starting about 2005. Then my brother and I did it all once BB30 taught us what to do. I made a few PU/PE boards back in the late 70’s, but we learned about using EPS and Epoxy resin from BB30.
Everything I’ve learned about boards is from the boards I’ve had made for me by some really good builders. How they’ve explained what they did and why. I just try to copy the things I like from the various boards I have. Right now I only have a few left, a BK, a couple from Downing, a couple of 5-fins from Griffin and a couple Geminis. The rest are boards I’ve made since 2005.
I’m still a hack though and depending on how bad my ADD kicks in I may make some terrible mistakes in the glassing process, or glass a board when I should take a minute and give it another look. I’ve done some damage sanding too much, especially with the XPS foam, that stuff doesn’t like heat. EPS can expand too if you don’t move around a lot. I also learned that a nice 4oz glass will wrap those edges way better than the cheap 8oz or 9oz you can get on eBay.
That’s what’s great about making your own boards, you really appreciate how much goes into a really well done board. Hats off to the masters of this craft, may they enjoy the success they deserve.
A Short all around single fin board for Calif? Take a look at Gary Hanel eggs study the fine blending of contours and then copy as best you can.
To get a little extra bite in the tail think about adding wings.
One of the things you need to think about when comparing boards built in the 1970’s to boards now is Rocker. most of the drew backs in boards from that time can be found in rocker profiles. I’m convinced that you could copy everything from a mid 1970s board and simply use a modren rocker profile you would have an excellent board. I’m thinking of something like a modern Tom Parrish of BillB Barnsfield Bolt
