Hey guys I have been reading as much as I can on this site for a while now and although I have only made a few boards, the only real problem I have had is shaping the rails. If anyone has any tips or tricks they would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks alot–Kevin
use the search bar at the top of the page.
barnfield did a comprehensive post on rail banding, not even one month ago…
hth
http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=248665
In all fairness, I had read the article and knew the title of the thread and it still took 3 searches to turn up the link for it. Some VERY informative pictures posted by BB. It’s a must read for rail bands.
Hi
I would recommend watching the Shaping 101 DVD by John Carper and making the rail shaping tool with 2 small surform blades set at 30 degrees that he shows in use in the video - I started shaping last summer and have made about 20 boards since - all using this tool - it’s invaluable to me and makes the job so easy - finish off with an abrasive gauze and you’ll be well on the way to cutting perfect rails.
Cheers
Richard
Thanks guys The article really helped. I tried searching for it, but didn’t exactly know what I was looking for. I’ll check out the shaping 101 video soon, I think I saw it on ebay the other day. When I was in Orlando for the expo I got to see Greg L. Shape a board and he used a 7in sander to do the whole job. It seemed to me that it was a lot easier to shape the rails. He told me that it was because he didn’t like the planer they had for him to use, but does any one think it would be beneficial to use a sander to shape the rails?
When I was in Orlando for the expo I got to see Greg L. Shape a board and he used a 7in sander to do the whole job. It seemed to me that it was a lot easier to shape the rails. He told me that it was because he didn't like the planer they had for him to use, but does any one think it would be beneficial to use a sander to shape the rails?
I have not shaped with a sander, but I have seen Greg do it. I would think that a planner would be much easier to get symetric rails as you have the planner bed to help guide/control your cut/preasure. For the beginner, I think getting good rails is about long smooth strokes running from end to end so that the curve flows. The sander, I would think, would tend to introduce waves. When I saw Greg shape (2 different times) he used a skill 100 to get a new finished shape and then did touch up and flipped the nose with the sander. He also used the sander to do the majority of the finish sanding using a soft pad on the sander. I think that is about production speed not ease of use, but I did not ask him.
well just another uninformed opinion
Not sure why I hadn’t read Bill’s rail thread properly before - sorry about that Bill. Great stuff.
What really stood out to me was the similarity to how I make arrows from square stock (weird, huh?). Obviously it’s on a different scale and you aren’t going for perfectly circular cross-section, but there dont seem to be that many differences.
One question, do you ever make initial “depth” cuts? What I mean is where you want a section of a band to be deeper than the rest of the band you make an initial pass over just that section, then you go over the whole band. Don’t have to fiddle with planer depth, etc then - but you do have to make more passes. This is common practice when barrelling or tapering in woodcraft, for example.
Hhhmmm… That’d a pretty easily, well controlled way to shape the bands with a small hotwire. Could add depth control quite easily to a small one. Then you are simply peeling off layers like using a carrot peeler.
Hey Mecca,
Found the 101 very handy. Just be careful with the rail shaping tool named “Fred”. He can become angry and start gougin with those teeth of his into a pretty sensitive area.
The other option is to add a wooden piece at 30’ on your tool and have 80-100 grit sandpaper on the exposed face.
There are photos of the tool on here somewhere. Pretty easy to conceptualise once you see Fred.
Good luck.
Stevo
Found the 101 very handy. Just be careful with the rail shaping tool named "Fred". He can become angry and start gougin with those teeth of his into a pretty sensitive area.The other option is to add a wooden piece at 30’ on your tool and have 80-100 grit sandpaper on the exposed face.
Yup and sandpaper FRED instead of sureform blades. I like the idea. Will try it on my balsa/eps/sandwich. Might be better for turning the balsa rails. Could also be good for lightweight EPS (like 1#). also consider the micro blades as an option.
tools is something like this _/ with the angle between being 30* (degrees). You put you cutting surface on one of the two sides of the angle. slide the other surface along the bottom and then the side of the board so the cutting surface provides your tucked under edge.
Not sure why I hadn't read Bill's rail thread properly before - sorry about that Bill. Great stuff.
Aloha Doug
Your forgiven! Ha!
What really stood out to me was the similarity to how I make arrows from square stock (weird, huh?). Obviously it's on a different scale and you aren't going for perfectly circular cross-section, but there dont seem to be that many differences.
Yes arrows or surfboards, it is still basically the same process you have described above. The more comfortable you get with this process the more you begin to see how it can be adapted to creating any symetrical, compound curved, surface
One question, do you ever make initial "depth" cuts? What I mean is where you want a section of a band to be deeper than the rest of the band you make an initial pass over just that section, then you go over the whole band. Don't have to fiddle with planer depth, etc then - but you do have to make more passes. This is common practice when barrelling or tapering in woodcraft, for example.Hhhmmm… That’d a pretty easily, well controlled way to shape the bands with a small hotwire. Could add depth control quite easily to a small one. Then you are simply peeling off layers like using a carrot peeler.
The process you describe above is used by many who don’t have planers that have “on the fly depth adjustment”. With those you create the depth of the rail band by cutting multiple small cuts each on top of another and gettng longer each time.
I guess it would work with a hot wire also. Kind of whittling by hotwire. On the other hand if you knew were you wanted to end up you could just hot wire to the depth needed.
Thanks for the Info guys, I really appreciate it. Would it be practical to try using sanding screen on Fred? Or would that bite alot?
The idea behind the sanding screen is that the dust goes through the weave (at least part of). If you glue some sanding screen on a hard backup, it won’t work as well. Just glue some 36 or 40 grit paper to your Fred, THAT works pretty fast.
Hey brother Bill!
Your forgiven! Ha!
hehe! Thanks! Seriously - really enjoyed that post once I read it. And I feel quite comfortable now approaching something that I was quite uneasy about previously. So big thanks, mate.
Yes arrows or surfboards, it is still basically the same process you have described above. The more comfortable you get with this process the more you begin to see how it can be adapted to creating any symetrical, compound curved, surface
Oh yes! I see the whole (non compsand) approach quite differently now. It’s more like sculpture than anything else, I think. Very nice, indeed. I also really like your bottom up approach. Bands sound/seem quite simple, I guess like most really elegant solutions. Very nice.
The process you describe above is used by many who don’t have planers that have “on the fly depth adjustment”. With those you create the depth of the rail band by cutting multiple small cuts each on top of another and gettng longer each time.
U-huh. I can see that. Obviously on-the-fly depth adjustment is going to be a much more expeditious way of shaping the bands, once you have the nack of it. I keep dayreaming about an hotwire “planer” with that kind of feature now 
I guess it would work with a hot wire also. Kind of whittling by hotwire. On the other hand if you knew were you wanted to end up you could just hot wire to the depth needed.
Yeah, I think so. A series of templates ould help. But then it becomes kind of mechanical. I am thinking along the lines of a relatively small hotwire now and marking out where I think I want the cuts… And I am also thinking of getting a decent power planer In my case I can clean up the mess and I’ll have side-lights before too long, so…
Thanks again Bill.