Hi everyone, here is a new hollow wooden shortboard we started working on. In the pictures you can see pretty good the method we are using to do the rails. The rocker shape that follows the outline is cut out of 1/4" thick pieces and then laminated around the board’s outline shape. The two inside slices are chambered out to reduce the weight. I hope to get the nose and tail blocks installed today along with some of the internal slices.
That looks great! How did you arrive at the shape of the rails? I always figured you could guesstimate the rocker pretty well by measuring key points along the stringer and carrying them over to the outline, then measuring along the outline. Is that what you did?
That’s roughly what I did. I’ve seen two others who will laminate 1/4" x 6" strips together to get the outline shape and then mark and cut out of those pieces the rocker profile. I did it a little different.
If I design a board on the computer I will make a seperate design for the rocker that is several inches longer than the board. I also account for the deck’s curve and so will make that rocker profile slightly thinner, sometimes and in some areas up to 5/8" thinner depending on the board’s shape. Still I usually make the rocker slices just a hair big and then with the sander or angle grinder with a sanding disc I can install the slices and then adjust the rails to where I want them.
I’ve got some more pictures from what I did yesterday with the slices and rails I’ll post soon, I just don’t have the time at the moment.
Here are some new pics from the hollow wooden shortboard. I reclamp the rail pieces in the outline jig and make sure each side is where I want it and not twisted in any way. Then I install the nose and tail blocks and the internal slices. The slices were printed out from the designed board in AKU traced and cut out with the jigsaw.
[img_assist|nid=1068448|title=Rail pieces in jig|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=480]
[img_assist|nid=1068449|title=Laying out internal slices|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=480]
[img_assist|nid=1068450|title=Slices glued in place|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=480]
[img_assist|nid=1068451|title=Rails and framework|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=480]
Thanks Hans,
Several weeks ago I’d downloaded your fin building software. Thanks for making that available.
As far as this particular rails first technique, it really seems to be reducing the build time of a HWS. I recently read another post of someone who’d made a HWS using the traditional strip and feather method for the rails using the bead and cove strips and they said it took them 19 hours of work to do the rails. With this shortboard it took less than 1/4 of that to get the rail pieces together and ready for the bottom to be put on and with experience that time will be even less.
I’d like to in the future have a more comprehensive e-book that explains in detail how to use this method.
“This does seem like a simpler way to get the structure of a hws together. The jig is great kiss in action.”
That was my first thought on the rails first setup. Danny Hess uses a similar “rails first” approach.
The bead and cove method always seemed overly complicated and labor intensive.
For some reason the pictures of this build make the whole hollow wooden thing seem much simpler than the others I’ve seen. Can’t wait to see the finished result.
Curious about finished weight also.
Thanks for sharing the pics, we want more, I’d love to see how you tie the deck/bottom into the rails.
Ever since I first started investigating HWS I’ve also thought that the bead and cove method is too labor intensive. And then you’ve either got to feather down the strips or cut your decking pieces perfectly to fit inside those small pieces. For me personally it seems like too much work and too many things that could go wrong. The surfboard also ends up having a lot of joints in such a critical area like the rails where it is prone to dings.
As far as how I tie the top and bottom on the board. Once I inlayed the deck and bottom skins in the solid rails. Mostly I have been clamping the deck and bottom right on top of the rails. I like to use a lot of plywood (to it reduces the build time and makes a lot of things a lot simpler), and as I shape down through the rails it exposes the different layers of plywood which creates natural pinlines around the outline of the surfboard. Once again, clamping the deck and bottom to the top of the rails is also easier and faster that inlaying them in the rails.
This is a previous board I did with a similar method. You can see the different layers of plywood that were shaped through around the rails.
[img_assist|nid=1068159|title=Artwork on our hollow wooden shortboard.|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=480|height=640]
This is a close-up of the nose of a mini-simmons I am working on. You can see a little better the transition from the plywood deck to the rails. Here’s the link to that board thread http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/4-10-hollow-wooden-simmons
With HWS, simplicity of the process should be the primary consideration during design…The shape and weight can be refined, but the core simplicity is what most HWS builders are looking for…There are those who are woodworking freaks who look to spend as much time, getting everything so perfect, but they are the exception…Most HWS builders want the ride and feel of a hollow, but don’t want to over complicate their lives, and/or don’t want to buy tools they might or might not use…
My evolutionary process started with jigs to create the basic rail shape, then fitting in the stringer and ribs, then skinning, then rails…Now the whole frame is cut out of 1’8" ply, hot glued together, skinned (either with ply or elaborately with wood), then the rails (laid hollow) are layered on (4 hours max) then shaped…I can do one to the point of glassing in about 8 hours total…
Chris, your design looks to me to be an extention towards simplicity…I can see ways to reduce the tools and clamping devices, but you’ll figure that out over time…Alway try to find ways to do it simpler…Like the process is designed for the lowest imaginable availability of tools and materials…It can be done and it will work just as well…
The one thing that’s a drawback (in my opinion) is the ply rail line at the deck…Wavy…Not horrible, but you know what I mean…Capping just seems to work out that way…Tool control there is the key…
That's true Paul, I don't like the look of capping, as you call it, with plywood, unless the edge really follows the rail.
Your board building process is really streamlined, you've done a good job of making the process accessible to more people as a result. I've heard nothing but good things about your classes.
I'm happy to see there is a strong contingency of wood board builders these days, but we always appreciate the guys who did it when no one else was.
That is true about “capping”. It’s easy to get the edge of the plywood looking wavy and then that kind of ruins the whole clean, streamlined look of a wooden surfboard. This is one where i inlayed the plywood, but I ended up painting the rails anyway.
Hey Paul I have a question. Have you ever heard of a wood called amapola? I’ve seen on some of Danny Hess’s pages he mentions using it. I live in the Dominican Republic and here there is a tree called amapola that seems very similar to balsa. I got a piece of the wood and calculated it’s weight per cubic foot at 12 lbs. It seems to be quite hard too and easily workable. I haven’t been able to find a lot out about it though.
I used some pieces of amapola I had for the fin plug blocks. I’m starting to think that here in the DR amapola is a type of balsa because it seems very similar. It is super light and very easy to work with.
