No more polyester shops. This happened to one well known gent in Ventura as well. The SCAQMD gave him a licence for 5 gallons a day. He’s switching as we speak.
well that was interesting …
i had a good read of the french article …
of coarse its the story he would like told …
very interesting he makes reference to greg loehr as making superior boards 15 years ago …
but its unaceptable to make boards from urethane and polyester unless your prototyping for masters to make a copy from …
so greg what went wrong ??
if your experiences were anything like mine , then you would have pretty much been faced with a barage of negative comments and propaganda from surrounding board builders …
randy mentions that his product is superior to most , obviously refering to a handful of builders who are out there doing new stuff …
ok so my question is , why has the majority of the industry turned its back on superior construction , lighter stronger and better performing boards that are custom made …which in the absence of any real development by the majority of the worlds board builders has left the door wide open for someone to come in with a molded board and hype it up as superior …
now while being superior in weight and durability , performance and customability are questionable …
and yet the industry could have had lightness , durability , performance and customability all those years ago , but turned there back on it , deriding the early pioneers of epoxy construction ???
if the changes were incorparated into the industry as they happened , surftech would never of been taken seriously …
over 10 years ago i was working with a guy who set up a wholesale business selling the raw materials to make sandwich boards , he would take my boards around to other guys in the industry to show what was possible with new tech methods and materials , he was certain it was the biggest thing to hit surfboards since the 50s …
total appathy , after a few years he shut up shop , couldnt deal with the close mind mentality of an unresponsive industry …
i just kept doing my thing alone down here …appart from a few sailboard builders …
the industry just didnt want to know …
if they did , then surftech and the whole concept could never have done as much damage to the industry as it has , and would be placed at the bottom of the heap as a cheap imported moulded entry level board …
so i dont get it greg ???
15 years ago people like yourselves were forging new ground , making lighter ,stronger and better performing boards …
what went wrong ??? how did surftech get a foot in ??
when it was already in the custom arena even before surftech started …
i know i was making custom sandwich boards long before i heard the name surftech …
i know ive been snowed under work wise for longer than i can remember , while others have periods of sitting around on empty resin drums with long faces waiting for christmas …
i still find it difficult to understand the resistance to custom sandwich and epoxy boards in general , when the first guys building them clearly showed there performance , strength and lightness to be superior …(unmatched contest results)
then along comes an inferior epoxy sandwich board (in comparison to other epoxy sandwich boards)and it actually gets to market …then we have these arguments between traditional custom urethane builders and riders of moulded epoxy sandwich boards as to which one rides better …
question ??? what rides better a custom p/u or a moulded p/u ???
what gives you more choices a custom p/u or a moulded p/u ???
your answers to those questions clearly show where the industry needs to go if its going to survive the 21st century …
moulded boards have always been heavier than a custom board of the same construction , you dont have the same control over where your resin goes , so you need to put more in to make sure it gets to all the corners …
when i pick up a surftech , its a heavy pig in comparison to what i build …
seriously , i just dont wanna know about the argument , that surftech have ruined our industry and wo is me i cant make any money out of surfboards …
when all along for the last 15 years or so you already had something better in your grasp and ignored it …
and now there is surftech , new laws regarding styrene emissions , and yet the major industry labels are still resisting ???
i wonder if anyone went to weber , noll , bing , or hobie and said hey i think we should build shortboards , or did they dismiss the idea as unrealistic , because they were the mighty producers of the day and what could possibly happen to make them lose market share ???
the market decided …
wake up , smell the vibe …
every surftech rider i know is happy with how they compare to a conventional p/u …
all the negative stuff i hear about them comes from other board builders acting out of self interest , and promoting slanderous arguments …
i can guarantee if i didnt have a year waiting list , there would be other board builders with a lot less work than theyve got now …
i get guys in the water blaming me!!! coz there riding something they dont want to ride , because they got a board somewhere else , coz they couldnt wait that long …
4 out 5 guys who comes to me walks away coz they wont wait ,and i dont even wholesale …
come on guys , listen to the market …
or else itll be like greg said , bing , hobie , weber , noll the major producers of the day , you couldnt get 5 bucks at a swapmeet …
and you couldnt convince the market even if you tried …
regards
BERT
I heard along time ago when Surftech first came out that Quiksilver had some interest in the thing. It could be total bunk, but as a business man myself. I don’t think French had the money to do full page adds in both Surfing mags and longboard mags. His ads are too much like the crap from the clothing companies.
Randy French did not show anyone anything about design in my opinion. He showed the surf industry as a whole, that there was still room for another Snake Oil salesmen. Salesmen know how to sell and if the product comes anywhere near their hype and has the right names on it at the right time, the consumer (who are predominantly kuks and beginers) will never know the difference.
Not trying to be harsh, but I think this is reality. I love epoxy on certain boards, there are others I don’t care for the feel on. It does have it’s own feel. I am not against epoxy or sandwich boards. In fact I really like the idea of custom sandwich boards as Bert does. However, I refuse to buy into the Randy hype simply because he decides to put out an article called “Randy Speaks.” I never did buy the Surfer magazine article that called him one of the most important men in surfing. Damn, where to they get this crap.
Who cares if Randy speaks. Really, who cares what Randy says. We have all seen the product and some of us have ridden the product and everyone on the beach knows exactly what you are when you walk down to the water with one of those things. Surfing has always had this you gotta earn it mentality and I don’t see it totally changing anytime soon.
Best I can tell, the Surftech things seem to be fading in many places. They seem to thrive in places where there is little surf and the surfer population reads alot of magazines and takes them seriously.
Greg and Bert. I enjoyed both of your post. Very interesting. I would love to see a custom sandwich one day.
Randy actually financed Surftech himself and did it the hard slow way paying dues along the way for thirty some years. Neither Quiksilver nor Volcom or any clothing label has financed him. If you actually read his interview, you will see he doesn’t make any hype claims as people here sometimes incorrectly accuse him of. I personally like his self- financed ads …at least he’s opening the minds of a very closed-minded industry. Surfer’s aren’t forced to buy his boards. And if you know the actual reader demographics of the surf mags(I do), most surfers don’t read as many mags as the advertisers might wish for. Thus it is the retailers who are really backing Surftechs because they are having success with them.
Where I live the waves are literally some of the heaviest in the world because the water is icy and the ocean powerful. The standout surfers in my area are almost all using Surftechs now because they like the way they feel. They keep buying new models as they come out. The popular models in my zone are the M10 6’1"s, the JC 6’4" Peter Mels, the Greg Webber Taj’s, and a bunch of the Santa Cruz’s.
I would reckon that most of the people bagging on them are not very performance oriented surfers or have not found the right shape to try. That is why there is such an open market for custom sandwich boards. I have 12 Surftechs in my rotation of 30 some boards. I have been a shaper since 1979. I cannot find the exact shape I prefer in the Surftech lineup, but I’m having a blast riding board designs that I would never shape. The construction is a step in the right direction, and I applaud Randy for having the guts to face his critics and give it a go.
Follow Bert and Greg’s leads and build your own in your garage. Bert’s been nice enough to give more than this industry deserves. I engineer with epoxy as a career and Greg’s epoxy is state of the art. He is pioneering with additive F and beautiful crystal clear safety hardeners.
Thankyou to all the closed- minded surfboard craftsmen out there. It makes it easier for Greg, Bert, Randy, and myself to have found a niche to make a living in this industry.
I sincerely encourage my competitors to stay closed-minded!
Love
Delbert de Von Pumpernickel
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Quote:Randy actually financed Surftech himself and did it the hard slow way paying dues along the way for thirty some years.
You say. <div class="bb-quote">Quote:<blockquote class="bb-quote-body">he doesn’t make any hype claims as people here sometimes incorrectly accuse him of.
He made the claim in the article that he was making superior surfboards. H.Y.P.E. He can’t back up the claim.
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I personally like his self- financed ads …at least he’s opening the minds of a very closed-minded industry.
I feel the industry is more open minded now than it has been in years. Hence Surftechs are actually selling. It’s still mostly driven by hype. The good shapers have more work than they know what to do with. Always been that way.
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Thus it is the retailers who are really backing Surftechs because they are having success with them.
True. Cost of surftech $525 tuflight sells at local surfshop for $890.00. The same shop that told shapers they could not pay over $350 or $400 for a longboard and needed a quantity discount and a free team rider before they bought his boards. I don’t see them asking Randy for a discount or team riders. They buy them because the public has been sold a bill of goods and will pay more for a popout made in a foreign land cheaper than a local shaper can build them rather than give their local shaper his due. Many of these boards have shapers names on them that have not even been active shaping since the sixties. Nostalgia pays off.
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Where I live the waves are literally some of the heaviest in the world because the water is icy and the ocean powerful. The standout surfers in my area are almost all using Surftechs now because they like the way they feel. They keep buying new models as they come out. The popular models in my zone are the M10 6’1"s, the JC 6’4" Peter Mels, the Greg Webber Taj’s, and a bunch of the Santa Cruz’s.
I rest my case.
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I would reckon that most of the people bagging on them are not very performance oriented surfers or have not found the right shape to try.
Quote:I rest my case. </blockquote></div>That is why there is such an open market for custom sandwich boards. I have 12 Surftechs in my rotation of 30 some boards.
Your rotation of 30 boards. I rest my case.
Quote:I have been a shaper since 1979. I cannot find the exact shape I prefer in the Surftech lineup, but I’m having a blast riding board designs that I would never shape.
Whats wrong with this statement? Shaper buys surftechs. I rest my case.
Not being crass, just calling it like I see it. I will buy a handshaped epoxy any day over a popout. Still curious to see Berts custom sandwich.
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George is the MAN. Barry said Geoff liked Bob's boards next door and got ahold of George as soon as SC said no more MEKP.
an update
George says M10 using RR epoxy over Clark foam achieves a 12% weight reduction compared to polyester resin over Clark foam…On an 8 pound board that is a 1 pound weight loss.
I see it as coming down to this:
For all those that think that RF is a business man who’s intent is making money… for sure… you are dead on right.
For all those who think that ANY of the top US companies are NOT into making money… you are dead on wrong.
So what’s the difference?
Anyone truely passionate about building the best boards they possibly can and are still using polyester are either swept up in a nostalgic haze, don’t have a good idea of what makes a high performance piece of equipment high performance or is so tied to high production that the idea of change and the effect it might have on their bottom line is not paletable.
Let’s be honest here, how many different alterative surfboard constructions have been discussed on this site, on this thread alone? WHY don’t ANY of the top manufacturers have a small R&D facilty in which they test new constructions??? Advance their products. Is it because they don’t have the money??? These are the guys who are doing well and they’ve drawn a line in the sand that they will continue to produce and back the production of CRAP and will not look beyond the status quo. They are not giving anyone their best, now are they? This is the true sign of their total lack of dedication to building better product. They won’t even take a look. And guess what… RF does have a facilty and works with a testing facility in SD as well!!! The only one who does.
In the real world of high performance composites, strength to weight is what it’s all about. Go to any of today’s pro events were the best in the world compete and watch as these guys break boards in shoulder high surf in almost every heat. As Bert said, high power surfboard companies giving away promotional crap so they can continue to sell crap. THAT’S NOT QUALITY! And that’s the reality here.
Somewhere on this planet there must be a few more people who’s focus is more on REAL 21st century quality and less on profit margin.
In my view RF stands above the rest of the crowd of surf businessmen … at least he’s done it different and has opened some eyes in the process.
Golly gee whiz Solosurfer, you just put me through a court trial. I just tried to say something nice about Randy. As you said, he’s not taking away anyone’s business, he’s only raised the standard for surfboard prices. And my rotation of 30+ boards is because I get paid to test boards for a living and I’m passionate about design. I usually rotate 2 to 3 boards a session on long point breaks to really be able to analyze characteristics. I usually ride my own shapes and construction, but it would just confuse most people here if I described my construction. People would probably just yell at me because my ideas are different. I can throw my boards 30 feet with no dings and throw rocks at them with no dings. Paul Jensen and Zosurf are surf buddies and have witnessed me throwing my boards or hucking rocks at my boards. Paul even helped me in November when I fractured my femur while doing a lip-to- boulder re-entry in the shore pound…no damage to my board. Luckily I already have steel rods in both legs in my tibia and femur because I test product for a living and get injured alot. My boards were developed in 52 degree water but the flex changes a little too much in 78degrees. And it is just a side project for fun that I will continue to tinker with when I have time…and it is very non-toxic or itchy.
I just think Randy hasn’t hurt anyone in our industry and has done such a good job that he obviously has created a lot of jealousy.
Buy Greg’s epoxy and follow Bert’s tips!
Love,
Delbert P.
Greg,
I agree with alot of what you say and respect your dedication. As I have said. I like alot of handshaped epoxy.
Don’t care for it on all boards though. I just don’t like the way it rides. Could have just been the board I road. I had a ten footer by Forstall that turned like an 8 footer. I do agree with you of course on the crap being sold and some being stuck in the past etc.
On French:
I give him his due on being good at marketing. Either him or his backers. I don’t agree he makes a better product. I think they are the best of the popouts that are mass produced. I still think they are crap. I hate the way they ride and the way they look. I don’t think they paddle any better than Poly boards made to float me. I definitely don’t think they ride better than a well made poly or hand shaped epoxy. I am not saying the tech. is bad, I just don’t like how it’s being applied at Surftech nor how it’s being sold. These things break, ding and the paint comes off of them.They are more expensive to repair if you can find someone that knows how. They do have some good points, but overall; not for me. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, but those are my own feelings. Articles calling RF one of the most important men in surfing don’t help matters. Based on whose standards? I am not hung up on old at all, but some of what we call new simply does not work for most surfers.
Take for instance the modern pointed nosed thruster. Worthless crap for most surfers that live where the surf rarely gets over 3 feet. It’s been called the standard for so long, people simply don’t accept any other alternative.
I see guys doing the same moves on fish, twin fins, Nuggets, eggs and hybrids and catching more waves. The pros make it look good, but they are in great shape and surf for a living and can ride a barn door.
Howdy Greg,
Thanks for cover’in my back at the OK Coral!
Del
I like riding crap!
Also: I disagree lighter is always better.
Lighter isn’t better? For who? It’s an old topic on this site and I’ll agree that for some this may be true. But the high performance end of the sport has always benefited from reduction in weight. As you yourself said, I had a ten footer that turned like an eight footer. I had Matt Barker at Clark ask me back in the 80’s “why would you want a 6’8” that rides like a 6’1"? I asked him “why would you want a 6’1” that rides like a 6’8". As for the pointed nose boards, they were designed for good surf. We have plenty of other designs that work in other conditions. The fact that these are popular beyond where they were designed for is just another example of what shortsighted whores the marketers are.
As for RF, here’s one point I was trying to make above. He is the one doing testing for producing better product, albeit overseas. He’s the one making improvments to his product line by testing advanced composite engineering. He’s the one that’s actually putting money into R&D. The polyester leaders are NOT!! Those guys are the ones resting on their laurels. Their the ones NOT giving back. They are the ones kicked back, counting the money, while putting no effort towards improving their technology. And, as has been discussed here in depth, there is now so much technology that is available. How could they NOT be involved???
Word!
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I’m passionate about design. I usually rotate 2 to 3 boards a session on long point breaks to really be able to analyze characteristics. I usually ride my own shapes and construction, but it would just confuse most people here if I described my construction. People would probably just yell at me because my ideas are different. I can throw my boards 30 feet with no dings and throw rocks at them with no dings. Paul Jensen and Zosurf are surf buddies and have witnessed me throwing my boards or hucking rocks at my boards. …And, it is just a side project for fun that I will continue to tinker with when I have time…
From what I see, hear and know, Holly is pushing the development envelope beyond most peoples dreams…
Maybe because he’s away from the “industry’s” corporate homegrounds…
In the land of un-emcumbered thinking…
Not really caring about what other’s think about his projects…
Just pure design and fully understanding materials, how they interact, and the performance potentials of materials not really considered surfboard materials…
I’m guessing he’s at least 5 years ahead of everyone else, 'cept maybe Greg and/or Bert…
And, I’ve got just a gut feeling the three of them are conspiring together…
Look out world, there’s a revolution coming, and it’s just over the horizon…
You can take it to the bank…
Greg,
That was a good post and I agree with almost every word of it. As I have said before. I have nothing against RF on a personal level. He has always been a gentleman to me and been very informative about his stuff. I just happen to dislike most of what it is he is doing.
I totally agree with you on his product testing and the main poly boys lack of it. No doubt, they have made their money and are too busy counting it to try and improve the sport they have made their income off of.
On weight. I like light for performance as you say, but my nugget is not light and is plenty loose and seems to carry through sections better with less effort. Do you think it’s the combination of rocker and his loaded dome bottom, or do you think it’s weight has something to do with it. I rode one of the Surftech models and it did not ride the same, paddle the same nor keep it’s momentum the same, yet it was much much lighter. Could you explain why that might be? Just wondering. I do like how lively the handshaped epoxys are in the water and how white they are as compared to Clark.
I love things moving forward, but I don’t jump on every band wagon. The Surf industy has a way of calling each new thing, the next thing… Familiar?
I think the problem with all of this in the future will be getting the stuff legally or producing boards for a reasoable price because the Green crowd outlaws something, like they did Freon. (which was and is vastly superior to the stuff they use now)
Much of this stuff is no worse for the environment than Auto emission. That could be the thing that finally drives the stake into poly boards. That and continued war in the middle east…OOOPs
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Anyone truely passionate about building the best boards they possibly can and are still using polyester are either swept up in a nostalgic haze, don't have a good idea of what makes a high performance piece of equipment high performance or is so tied to high production that the idea of change and the effect it might have on their bottom line is not paletable.
Greg, we all appreciate your development of alternative materials that are more environmentally sound. I hope you are right they are the future of surfboards. But the way to get there sooner and change the industry is not by insulting the top shapers, those that have developed the shapes that we’ve come to love and enjoy. It is also not a good strategy to insult surfers by implying (or outright stating) that their current surfboards suck. There are a lot of surfers out there now having a really good time on their current surfboards made in the conventional way by shapers large and small and you’ll have a better chance winning them over by beginning every conversation by stressing the similarities between your boards and their current boards, showing how they have nothing to fear because epoxy boards can do all the great things they currently love about their poly boards, but then have such and such additional benefits.
I mean, which sounds better to a potential customer?
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your current surfboards suck. the shapers you like are greedy dinosaurs making crap. both you and they are idiots if you don’t realize the superiority of modern construction methods and materials.
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we know your current boards are groovy and the guys shaping them know tons about what makes a certain shape perform in certain conditions. these shapers, and their easy to work with materials, have brought us a long way in surfboard evolution. we’d like to continue that evolution with these great materials that will preserve the excellent feel of current boards and allow shapers to customize and progress in shaping just like before, and give you a board that is stronger, and if you like lighter than current boards.
Surftech must realize this because their advertisements don’t really go after the current industry. They attempt to blend in with it. They do show their different technology, but I bet just as many people are attracted to surftechs because of the ‘shapers’ names are familiar and the customers don’t feel like they are risking anything or going into completely unknown territory by buying a surftech.
But surftech can’t offer the customization and feel that you and Bert and other epoxy and vacuum tech guys can though. If you guys presented yourselves as shapers first, as guys with all the positive attributes that surfers are used to finding in their shapers, who make boards that have all those positive attributes too, but then also happen to also offer this added benefit of superior technology and materials that you’ve developed, then I think more surfers would make the jump (of course Bert is too busy already and maybe you are at capacity too…). In other words, don’t make this stuff sound like something completely different from current surfboards: make it sound like a smooth evolution.
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Let's be honest here, how many different alterative surfboard constructions have been discussed on this site, on this thread alone? WHY don't ANY of the top manufacturers have a small R&D facilty in which they test new constructions???
I suppose because they are under the belief that alterations in the shape of a board are more crucial to success than alterations in the materials of the board. So they put their R&D into testing shapes, through their team riders. It’s just a different focus: some people are into materials, others are into shapes.
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In the real world of high performance composites, strength to weight is what it's all about.
Sure. But remember that it’s fairly clear that surfers are still under the impression that in the world of surfboard performance, shape and feel is what it is all about. If you can maintain that excellent feel or even enhance it with advanced composite construction, you will win them over. Surftech certainly hasn’t accomplished this. I believe you and Bert and some others do make boards that can win surfers over. Just need more exposure. Keeping your own marketing, even on this forum, positive and appearing more like #2 than #1 above will make it more likely that the average surfer out there will be willing to try a new type of surfboard.
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I think the problem with all of this in the future will be getting the stuff legally or producing boards for a reasoable price because the Green crowd outlaws something, like they did Freon. (which was and is vastly superior to the stuff they use now)
R-12A is better than Freon and R-134A. R-134A is the Freon replacement, which has lower heat capacity and is more corrosize. R-12A (see Duracool) has higher heat capacity than Freon, and is less corrosive than Freon or R-134A, and can drop-in replace either.
The ozone layer will recover to its old levels in another 3 decades. Its depletion mostly due to Freon and its family of chemicals. Outlawing them was a VERY good thing.
Sorry for the OT tangentiation. But there is better, legal, stuff than Freon. And CFCs are illegal for a very good reason.
Blake,
What you say may be true, but none of it feels as cold on my skin as freon did.
As for the Ozone: Some volcano Mt. Pinetubo (or something) blows out more ozon destroying stuff than freon ever did. Many scientist argue over the ozone issue. The Green crowd is as good as the oil crowd at making stuff up. Not saying thats the case, but you have to wonder sometimes.
In any case, they hate the stuff we make surfboards out of.
maraboutslim , that was great advice …
but i fully understand gregs viewpoint , in fact i think i have used strong if not stronger words to describe current production methods , so its only fair i should be open to the same criticism …
but if youd seen what greg and i have seen over the years you would fully understand the frustration of dealing with an unresponsive industry …
the surfers themselves are not really to blame , they can only buy the boards that are available in the market place …
so its only fair to start questioning the inteligence of the board builders them selves …
when i first came to this forum , the only guys who really understood what i was saying in alot of cases were holly and greg , they had a comprehension of things like compression and tensile resistence , flex in regard to memory , fatigue , memory speed , better cross linking of resin molecules to give better energy tranfer , load spreading and load transfer , how different materials and how they flex affect the static properties of a shape and the list goes on …
so here comes the frustrating bit …
so now your dealing with other shapers (guys who round off the corners on a piece of urethane foam )
and they say stuff like " yea , i think my customers want a board they need to replace every 12 months , they dont want a light strong board , theyd rather have a board that feels lifeless to surf , why should i get out of my comfort zone to make them better boards , there buying the ones i make now arent they ?"…
the average guy off the street has no idea how good a board can be , greg knows …
now see my frustration , im out surfing the other day , i see one of my customers on a surftech , he says " i could never go back after owning a sandwich board from you , but i didnt want to wait a year so i brought this surftech sitting in the racks ready to go " he did find out the hard way that it wasnt quite the same …
then i have other customers who because they cant wait go and get another normal board from other board builders and then winge at me coz it doesnt go as good …
i got a phone call from another board builder who told me one of my customers ordered a board from him to tie him over while he was waiting for one of mine , coz his current one is in for repair…
now if other board builders made decent boards then i wouldnt be getting complained at all the time , you wouldnt have guys buying surftechs , heck i would much rather see the sale go to another board builder than overseas …
plus i have no way of capitalising on my business the way a normal shaper could if he was building p/u p/e boards …
i cant take my boards to a glassing house , nor find anyone that can build them for me …
so there you have market demand , but the industry not responding to market demand …
greg knows firsthand all the benifits of epoxy and alternate constructions , and i know greg and i have experienced so many similar experiences in trying to bring something better to the industry …
theres a saying , you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink …
chances are youd feel like ringing the horses neck for not responding to your efforts to help …
thats a little like the way i feel and presume greg would feel the same way …
now the industry is dealing with pressure from surftech , which just wouldnt be there if it was building boards that were superior …
yet its had more than ample opportunity to move to superior constructions but kept resisting …
the market is screaming for something better , theres a pro i know down here , he got 2 brand new boards on monday , snapped them both first surf in one session , he cant even free surf his favourite boards for fear of breaking them …
yet i cant even make boards for him because it would only complicate my life further …
ive got something that would solve all his problems , but then id probably end up with a 5 year waiting list …
hes half my weight and i was looking at boards of his ridden a few times with the decks caved in and pressures all over the bottom when my board which is a year old twice the size and the same weight doesnt even have a pressure ding yet …
even the pros are screaming for something better but no one is responding …
how would surfers feel if they knew there was something better out there , but there board builders for one reason or another refused to offer those boards …
surfers currently dont have much choice , i know exactly what they would pick if they did have a choice ( a decent choice).
i personally feel , its only fair to condem alot of the current board builders for not being interested in development of equipment …
its like car manufactures only being interested in developing the areodynamics of cars but still running the same engines and mechanical components from the 50s , what a joke that would be …
whats the difference ??..
its only fair thay lose there spot as market leaders if there not leading the market …
so while i know it sounds offensive to say negative things about current boards , the facts are that most have become disposable pieces of crap …
and the ones that are built to last arent up to the performance level required …
solosurfer , i know why your surftech Mc coy didnt feel as good as your urethane Mc coy …
its simply because geoff has no idea about the performance properties of composite sandwich boards and how they relate to the static characteristics of the shape …
all these supposed great shapers are giving epoxy composite boards a bad name …
all they do is help randy sell boards based on there wealth of experience with urethane …but thats another story in itself …
even if it currently seems unpopular im agreeing with greg fully , one day everyone will be thanking him and hopefully myself and all the other epoxy advocates whove stuck there neck out …
regards
BERT