" It is the blind leading the blind and nobody really knows the truth…"
http://www.allaboutsurf.com/0501/articles/surftech/index.php
First of all, I DID NOT read the article.
But I’ve known Randy since 1982, when he first got into full production of surfboards, supported him thru his windsurf stage (1983 on), rode for his company under “development rider” from '86-88, and watched his Seatrend brand go from SantaCruz, Gorge, then 2 different Slovakian plants, to backing off and becoming local again.
Randy is a good guy, as is most all of the boards builders. However, like all good guys, “truth” changes with ever accumulated knowledge!
What is absolutely “TRUE” today might not be nearly as clear cut tomorrow, or was yesterday.
We only know what we know right now, and if we were judged on our entire history of decision making, we’d come out VERY flawed!
Well, I DID read the article! Randy comes off as a very sincere businessman trying to do both the “right thing” and make a profit—and in my experience those things are NOT alien to each other. it’s a very well done article and an interesting counterpoint to the past articles(rants) by Dave P.
and let the responces begin 
Here, here!
Is that his “hit me” grin?
Randy has always been a gentlemen to me and on a personal level, I like the guy. On a business level, I resect him. However, I have never nor will I buy into his theory that he is making a better more improved surfboard. I just don’t think that is the case. I still feel it’s mostly about money and turning the surfboard into a comodity. Another sales pitch to add to over 50 years of sales pitches. I have seen surftechs break and ding. I have seen hand shaped that last 20 years in pretty good shape.
He may say they flex, but when I have ridden them, they don’t feel faster as he discribes. They feel stiffer. No doubt Surftech has caused more interest in what surfboards are made of.
I believe him that he really is trying to “build a better surfboard.”
I just think that his perspective of what a better surfboard is has been heavily influenced by the business experiences he’s had. It comes right out in his own words in that interview. After those experiences, it seems that to him, “a better surfboard” has come to mean: one that is easier to mass produce, easier to maintain quality control, easier to market, and…easier to make a lot of profit from.
Two factors are still missing: being better in the way they perform on the waves (despite what he says, most of us agree the feel just isn’t right), and being better in labor conditions and economic results for american/australian citizens.
I think you are close, but he says a better surfboard is lighter and stronger. It just so happens that he can achieve that using a technology that is profitable along with good looking and has an apparent high quality. He admits that they are limited to a “one size fits all” mentality, but that is his market niche. I just saw it in Baja last weekend…beginners and reborne oldsters on 9’+indestructo logs. Those folks don’t care about an extra 1/4 inch of tail kick or the one-off acid splash lam. They are out there to catch waves and have some fun. Now I think it is too bad that those folks are missing out on those huge parts of surfing that are surfboard design and riding hand crafted, custom piece of gear but I was fairly certain they couldn’t give a shit what I thought.
Randy’s not a villain. If he didn’t do it someone else would have.
We all ought to pray to the gods of commerce that Grubby keeps making foam or what ever’s left of our little, dying lifestyle is in serious trouble.
“if not him, someone else would have done it” is just about right-thankfully, it was him and not someone else.(just think if a real a-hole did it instead.who knows what would be going on in the factory, etc.)i don’t own a tech, never will, but have ridden one once. there was absolutely, to me anyway, no feeling to the board…
I agree with those above. I’ve known him for years and Randy is an upstanding guy. Just think what this could be with some Jack a$$ who cut pricing and attempted to corner the market. As solo said, ST has created interest in what boards are made of. The technology is out there right now for the US surfboard industry to vastly improve it’s product. Randy just happens to be one that is showing an alternative that is reasonable and works. There is no reason we can’t use what ST and others are doing to influence custom equipment and produce something truely revolutionary. Just seems odd to me that here we are in the 21st century and alternatives are easily available and most the industy havn’t even tried. In the face of EPA and SCAQMD sanctions, cheap imports and diminshing business options the status quo still maintains the status quo out of fear of change as if to shake the foundation would somehow bring down the roof. Seems the real revolutionaries (Simmons and Greenough) saw the light long ago that today’s builders still refuse to recognize regardless of all the advances.
I also agree, Randy has opened the door. The only thing the pop outs have going for them is durability and slight weight reduction. They are not cheaper, aren’t custom, and a lot of people don’t like the way they feel. Except for the marketing dollars behind them, I think that it would be easy to build better boards than SurfTech. They are stuck with their expensive molds and construction materials — at least for now. Custom sandwich construction offers unlimited potential!
Greg is right:
“The best way to win in this case is to offer what they can’t and that is by building the best product, with materials and expertise that are unavailable to Aisa. Force them to meet a new standard. Beat them with American know how and our stratigic advantage of marketplace location. And remember, the importers are Americans. Take their market away from them and they will BAIL. Thialand is NOTHING without Mr. French. Likewise China is nothing without the Americans who are succeeding in the marketplace. They are the weak link that can be defeated. Make them believe that they’re selling s#&t by raising the technological bar and they’ll bail. Quality, value, image. That’s what it’s all about. Change these three and you own the game. Sell the same thing they sell, for more money, and your history.”
Mainstream builders offer all kinds of polyester/fiberglass boards which are not custom, not cheaper… and there are plenty of surfers who don’t like the way certain boards feel… no matter how, with what, or by whom they’re built.
If it was “easy” to build better boards than SurfTech, don’t you think that’s what a lot of surfboard builders would be doing?
Quote:
If it was "easy" to build better boards than SurfTech, don't you think that's what a lot of surfboard builders would be doing?
Yes. And they are. I’ve yet to meet one person who actually prefered the way a surftech board surfed over an old-tech board. And the market seems to prove that surfers have decided these other surfboard builders you are speaking of do indeed build better boards because more of their boards are bought than surftechs.
It will always be about the feel of the board and the customization. With the growing availability of eps blanks and quality epoxy resins, it is getting easier for shapers to bring customization to new-tech board “building”, and folks like Bert are bit by bit giving us hints on how to have some customization with vacuum bagging. And perhaps boards built by guys like Greg and Bert have even succeeded in having the “feel” we seek as well: i wish they were available to me to try. If they do feel as good as traditional boards, then we’re really getting somewhere. If they don’t, then no amount of high-tech talk about why they are better will convince surfers that they are in fact better boards.
First time I rode a shortboard (1967) it blew me away. There was no way this wasn’t going to become the future of surfing. The first time I rode a custom epoxy board (1980) I got the same feel. Lighter, more responsive, planes quicker… I thought the same, no way this wasn’t the future. Almost 25 years later and I can’t believe the vast majority of surfers still haven’t caught up. Most have never even tried one. And here we are today facing the threats to our lifestyle in the forms of cheap imports abroad and laws against styrene emissions at home. But the surfboard industry still maintains the status quo out of fear of change when the solution to the threats are right in front of them. Their answer for 25 years has been to tell everyone who would listen that epoxy surfboards don’t ride right and then they secretly ride them themselves because they feel the same thing I did in 1980. But now it appears that change is upon us. Whether they want to or not, custom epoxy boards are the future after all and few in the surfboard industry today doubt this. It’s now only a matter of time now.
Some of my friends have had very good things to say about the NHS (Santa Cruz brand) epoxy boards, particularly the Archibald model & Barney model. I had an epoxy wavetech LB and I wouldn’t buy another one. For a 10’ classic LB with 50/50 rails it just didn’t glide and trim like it should. I’d give a shorty a try though.
Hmm, did anyone else notice that the closet items next to RF in the photo above are a Chinese pagoda and a Lucky Bamboo plant? Coincidence? Perhaps Not.
its only a matter of time hey greg …
once again your finger is on the pulse ,i think a word you will probably hear from a lot of hardline status quoists is , lament …
i got a call just the other day from a guy … he was saying to me , why fight it , just pump out boards like the rest of us …
seems the same mentality as surftech ,
pump em out , cut corners get the cash ,
at least surftech have conducted them selves a little better, and havent had to resort to underhanded tactics , bad mouthing , spreading false and insinuating comments about epoxy , just to make a sale …
randy did a good thing , he exposed the majority of the market place to something different , left the consumer with a taste for more …
left it wide open for what people really want…
a light durable board , built to your size and specs that actually performs …
lament will be the call for those who dont have access to new technology as it happens …
if it were ever possible for me to choose who got access to the new technology and who didnt , id probably have a list of do not sell to …
we will just call that one returning the favour …
as for gregs comments on performance…
well thats spot on , epoxy is the future of high performance …
the trophy cabinets of my teamriders would attest to that fact…
but the reality is that anyone who takes a business to the international level , is going to be more concerned about the bottom line than the welfare of there customers/consumers …that comment is aimed at the mentality of pumping out disposable crap , but to keep selling disposable crap , they have to give hundreds of pieces of disposable crap to pro surfers to generate sales of disposable crap …
what happens when producers who actually care about durability and performance actually get there businesses to an international level …
i once had a team guy get 5 years out of one board , he would have got more had his little brother not dry docked it onto jagged rocks …before i converted completely to epoxy/sandwich he was going through at least 6 boards a year …
30 = 1 maybe thats the real reason , the economics of keeping the status quo???
maybe that gives us a little insight into the make up of those wanting to keep things as they are …
randy showed us durabilty and marketing , bert showed you durability and performance , one day someone else will come along and show you durability , performance and marketing …
if that day ever comes , there will be some serious lamenting going on …
thanks randy , congrats to greg for having the insight to move into epoxy resin refinement and production …
apologies to builders of disposable crap …but surely , even just handling and picking up a surftech , must make you feel conned ???
that comment made to me recently about why fight the status quo , seems like it would be more appropriate to ask , why fight the change to stronger lighter boards that perform better ???
that change is being fought for shortsighted commercial reasons …
what happened in the late 60s when overnight ,racks became full of outdated longboards that you couldnt give away , thats right ,the change happened over night …
i can see greg is nice and prepared for that overnight market shift …
regards
BERT
this guy is well prepared for the drop
I couldn’t agree more and I’m now seeing that this whole thing may happen much more like it did in the late 60’s. That time the large manufactuters were doing business as usual, stockpiling thousands of boards into warehouses waiting for summer to arrive. Suddenly they had warehouses full of obsulite crap that no one would buy. Meanwhile the small time or garage builder who wasn’t concerned with production numbers but only with making great riding boards became the new status quo. Gone in an instant were Weber, Noll, Bing, Hobie, etc., and a new school took their place. Merrick, Rusty, Rawson, Carper and most of the other of todays leaders came out of that revolution.
Maybe the guys who are now at the top won’t change. I’m sure MOST won’t. Perhaps some will. One of the questions I always face when talking with the top guys today is, “How many?” when, in my mind, the question should be, “How good?” How many seems to me a question you ask later. The other issue with those at the top is that they are now only involved in shaping, none own glass shops anymore. This ties their hands when it comes to R&D and makes any move into advanced composites virtually impossible. I’m guessing now that there will be a new generation that will take the lead in this thing. This is already in the works as companies like M-10, Fly and 3DM make the switch. These companies all are COMPLETE factories.
I’m also seeing that the whole import thing is really being buoyed by a strong dollar and that the continued success of companies like ST have more to do with monetary exchange and margins that allow for hype. With the dollar in decline we may see a return of some industry to US shops, and Aus shops as well, as the international playing field levels. Tariffs on products built by subsidized industry would also be nice but I’m sure congress is much to bought by special interests for that to ever happen.
M-10 - Roe Sham Beau glassing (George) and RR epoxy!!! Driven in part by the moratorium on new polyester resin shops in Santa Cruz.
George is the MAN. Barry said Geoff liked Bob’s boards next door and got ahold of George as soon as SC said no more MEKP.
George’s glassing room at Bob’s old shop is where I stood out of the way, kept my mouth shut, and learned how to laminate. When it was time to go, I’d lay a $5 somewhere dry and slip away. Needless to say, George never minded when I appeared in the outside door.