Real fish and choppy waves.

General Discussion
1

Despite many saying that twin keels are good for sloppy surf, i dissagree and notice that my fish only “really” goes well in clean or offshore days with really lined up swells.The sort of wave that starts off slow and gets faster down the line.

Not chunky,not too hollow not fat.

Anyway, just want to descuss what it is about fish that makes them awkward to surf in less than these ideal conditions.

Is it the size of the fins?

Or the width or lack of length?

(For those that dont find them awkward, let me explain- i cant get my timing between crouching/compressing and pumping like a spring cooardinated in slightly bumby or choppy surf.

Also if theres any backwash as your taking off, unless ive angled my turn right to start off…I cant turn quick enough eithor.)

Is there any hope in improving this? Or would i be best riding another board in those conditions?

I would love to get to the stage where i can ride my fish well, way outside the ideal conditions.

Any info would be great, thanks.

2

Hey Twistedrifter,

The bottom contour plays a big part in dealing with chop when using a twin-keel fish. Most of my bottoms on fish

are flat, or shallow concave to flat. With just a little bit of vee through the entire hull you would be amazed

how things get smoothed out. You will find that you will gain authority over the board again, and it will feel

quite smooth.

This is a 5’7" fish that I put a subtle vee throughout the entire length of the board. I can

tell you that it is very smooth in chop. The chop in the above photo was worse than it looks,

there was a crossed windswell from the night before, and the tide was pulling out quickly

which totally disturbed the surface.

Now, the penalty for vee is the possible increase in drag, so remember that vee-bottom fish

must be shaped just right, with very flowing lines…

HTH,

George


3

Fish are very efficient planing vehicles, and consequently can ‘‘skip’’ across the tops of chop.

I used to have the same problem of my boards only liking clean surfaces, until I reduced the

volume and thinned out the rails (I already had a slight roll and V). The difference is amazing,

now I can carve through chop w/o bouncing all over the place.

Personally, I don’t like big thick downrail fish, and if you look at the boards of the fish gurus,

I think you’ll see they don’t like them either. The thick ones catch waves easily and go fast,

but you can’t turn them at speed and they get very skittery in any kind of bump or power.

Mike

4

Mark,

I think you are right, thinner rails make the fish much more controllable.

When the waves miss that push it takes just a bit more care with the feet to make it work.

I can catch wave just as easy!

I found out a bit of V in the center of the board lets it handle chop much better.

When combined with double concave it lacks the disadvantages of a flat V.

Soul

5

What about increasing the outline curve behind the WP?

Foiled my groveller’s rails out some more on your say-so, MD

(working all day Sunday)

6
Quote:

What about increasing the outline curve behind the WP?

Yeah, I do like to use a tiny bit of curve in the rear part of the outline. It’s all part of slightly

updating the Lis-style fish. I’m not trying to replicate my 1972 fish, but rather use some of the

knowledge I’ve gained in the past 35 years to make it ride a little better. The outline curve

helps to initiate turns and kinda takes the place of wings or bumps that some put on their fish.

Of course I’ve also got those wacky multiple-element fins and rail blades that weren’t quite standard

equipment in 1972 either. Oh wait, gotta go; the nice people in the white coats are calling us in for

our treatments now…

Mike

7

Hey Mike,

You got me interested in those wacky fins n things!

I caught an illness on Sways they call Chipperitis and it’s highly contagious.

EhhhR mate,

You got any PICS???

Yunno mate YES???

Soul

8

We already posted pics of the rail blades on the ‘‘L-fins redux’’ thread. They work very well and if

you ride a fish you should try them. Can’t post pics of the fins as they are under consideration

for release through a well-known fin company. Thanks for the interest, though.

Mike

9

How subtle do you make the vee, for it to still be effective?

10

Thanks for that guys good info.

11
Quote:

How subtle do you make the vee, for it to still be effective?

As plusone said, it doesn’t take a heap of V to help knock down the chop. For me though, I think it’s

more about reducing the volume and thinning the rails to get the board down in the water a little more.

Even a flat bottom (with a little V out the tail) will work if the board is small enough. When you get into

the ‘‘oversize’’, high volume fish you’d have to use a lot of V to get close to the same effect.

Mike

12

Also just as MikeDaniel has stated. (I should have read the entire thread),

reducing the volume especially at the rail greatly improves handling in chop.

The board I’m riding in the pic is 5’7" x 19-1/4 x 2-1/8", and I’m just over 5’11"

and around 175 lbs. Basically a specialty fish that was sized down to handle

rougher water and/or more juice.

Side note: I took that board to Indo and the Maldives and it worked really well

on certain days. I was on a plane to the Maldives with that board just a few

hours after the pic was taken… …and landed into a good swell.

13

I’ve had the same experience with a narrower thinned out fish (2" thick, concave deck, 20" wide, 5’8"). Surfed it this morning in head high waves with extreme offshore - the spray coming off the back was a complete white-out - couldn’t even see the next wave. Even with a flat bottom I had heaps of control, carving through and over sizable chop.

Karl

14

I have a fish with a bit of v shaped into the nose it works very well in choppy waves. Better than my fish with a slight concave bottom. The v was put in for a different purpose I use to take off very late the shaper said it would keep the nose from catching the face as I slid down the face.

15

Without much experience on fish boards, this is a great thread, but some more info on rail shapes would be great!!!

Both thinned out rails and moving away from thick downrailed boards have been mentioned

Do the thinner rails have more of a 60/40 type shape? how do the rails transition throughout the board from nose to tail?

I’m envisioning something like 50/50 at the nose to foiled 60/40 at mid and sharp down rail at the tail.

Thanks!

16

You’ve got it about right, but that’s just the way I do it. Find what goes best for you.

I like to foil the nose and tail thin too, for penetration on the rail in the nose and for bite

and sensitivity in the tail.

Mike