Hey KK
This might be of interest. Or not.
http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/stuv/top-Splinter-Wooden-Supercar.htm
I'd say if you contact the uni dept. they might give you some more details about what sort of wood composites they use. Unless of course they are trying to pattent it, then you know yourself ..IL
The original question asked for reasons why not to buy one. My answer is I wouldn't buy one because I prefer to build my own. To build a HWS requires a pretty good wood shop. As much as I love to buy tools I can't justify the cost to build myself surfboards when foam and fiberglass are relatively cheap, easy to work with, and have little investment in tools. I'm just another beer drinking dumbass, too. Mike
Yeah, I originally thought i’d find out what the main “deal breakers” were for people…
But as I was writing the first post I just figured everyone would answer with a whole variety of stuff, so why not?
I probably could have worded it “Issues with” or “How could HWS be better” or something.
Most people on this probably would prefer to make their own, but that just means you’ve all got a really in depth understanding of the issues.
I’m gunna ask the same thing over on Surfer Mag, to get the opinion of people who don’t build boards as well.
Stingray, I gave up trying to re-post my profile info after the forum moved to the new format an wiped it all…
It wouldn’t let me do anything. Most stuff still doesn’t work, so i’ve sort of forgotten about it 
retrothis, that car is EPIC!
The type of thing i’d love to get involved in.
Thanks for the link man, that super cool!
Kit
Drains and vent plugs: Any hollow board must have some sort of vent. It doesn’t take much temperature to blow out the planking. A constantly open vent like Gore-tex needs to be sized carefully based on the board size. Shortboards with less internal volume will heat up faster and must bleed off excess pressure faster, so a larger vent area is needed. SUP’s and LB’s will heat up slower and can use less vent area. Drains: 3/8" ports near the nose and tail will provide enough airflow to dry out the inside. These should be left open when the board isn’t in use (condensation). Waterlogged wood is worse than waterlogged foam, so fix those dings.
Recently, I had contact with a company who makes ABS molded SUP’s (top and bottom halves, joined with a “H” strip). These are both hollow and have eps in several sections for bouyancy. They had blow-out failures when heated because they didn’t vent the hollow sections or interconnect the eps pieces with air channels. I’m bringing this up for those who are temped to integrate foam in an HWS. For pure HWS, the internal formers need to have enough openings to not cause any airflow blockage. Hollow wood needs to be vented and drained, and you should plan for this in the design and not as an afterthought. All those plugs and vents detract from the beauty of the wood, but they are necessary.
KK, the thing about your goal is, wood has been around for a zillion years, and no one yet has been able to do what you want to do.
It simply isnt possible with natural materials because there are ZERO natural materials that fit the bill. The strength to weight required just isnt available in nature.
Sorry, man but it is virtually impossible.
If someone were to make it possible, it would either be really expensive or really fragile.
Maybe there will be some new material science breakthrough, but that breakthough wont be made of wood.
So I wont be holding my breath. But admire your enthusiasm!
The closest thing is a hollow carbon like Aviso. You can process carbon so that it rings like wood. There is a company making carbon acoustic intruments and as it turns out, they resonate stronger and are louder than wood. But wood has some trippy affect on people's emotions so you would have to make them look like real wood. If that works, you can tell then its wood and they will trip and do a naked moondance in the middle of the day, get strange tattoos etc etc. Just dont tell them its carbon they will freak out and think robots are taking over...well ok they are but thats another story.
PS - why is Beachly standing on the beach, with wet hair, wearing a beach towel, and kissing a board with NO WAX on it? Why is that board in front of the starbucks, in front of the starbucks? Hey there's a drum set in there....and cool earthy books......could it be...............MARKETING???
These are both hollow and have eps in several sections for bouyancy. They had blow-out failures when heated because they didn't vent the hollow sections or interconnect the eps pieces with air channels.
OMG....PLEASE tell me its Chinese! PLEASE!
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PS - why is Beachly standing on the beach, with wet hair, wearing a beach towel, and kissing a board with NO WAX on it? [/quote]
Deductive reasoning would seem to suggest that Beachly went surfing on a different board, and likely RODE one made of foam. But when KISSING a board is the call, she prefers kissing one made of wood. Makes sense....
Kit, I am positive this can be done, don’t let negatives sway your thoughts. I’m backing you 100% mate!
Just because others have failed doesn’t mean you can’t succeed, think outside the box and you’ll get the result you’re looking for.
I’ll be undertaking my own experiments with the same goals and will keep in touch.
cheers
Reasons why you wouldn't buy an HWS?
Hello KKSurf,,,,
all joking aside....it's all about money....
I have my opinions....but....
The reason I will never buy a HWS is because they cost too much. It 's the same reason I drive a Toyota not a BMW. It has nothing to do with Engineering or Perfomance...or education or bad spelling....I can't afford to buy a HWS......I have a family and a house payment....Keep going...you build very nice boards....
Stingray
Cheers mate!
I have a feeling that the cost is gunna be one of the hardest problems to overcome… If I end up making them the same speed as I can make compsands i’ll be very happy.
The materials are actually only about the same as a PU. It’s the time thats the killer.
One of my favorite quotes -
“Where there’s a will there’s a way, but where there’s a wallet there’s a better way!”
Hey Crafty, No not Chinese. Designed for resort lakes in the US. Resorts will buy a fleet of these which is a pretty good profit on a single run. However, maintenance (ding repair) is a big problem to provide as an on-going service in these out-of-the way places. So Costco plastic kayak construction is a virtual ding-proof way to go. BTW, they rent these things for $60 USD + per hour, lessons extra. The way they built these was to install the foam blocks, glue the two halves together while pulling a vacuum from the vent hole until cured. A good idea, but absolutely no real engineering applied to the concept. Trial and error development using big expensive thermo-forming tooling isn’t a good investment. But hey, everybody is an expert in this field; I’m tired of being a janitor and cleaning up their mess.
I think the solution to get a HWS build up to speed is to use CNC to cut out the internal ribs. Then it fits together like a jigsaw puzzle which can be assambled in minutes. Adds cost, saves time. I’ve also been thinking about using the vaccuum bag to ‘clamp’ the skins in place when gluing them onto the ribs. Worth a shot IMO.
As for not buying one: I’m cheap like most surfers. That’s why I build my own boards in the first place. Secondly, why buy a HWS over a compsand when they look exactly the same and the compsand is a good few pounds lighter?
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Kit, I am positive this can be done, don't let negatives sway your thoughts. [/quote]
Hey sparrow, by THIS do you mean the following:
1. a modern performance shortboard of conventional shape/design; 6' x 18.25" x 2.25"
2. of common volume
3. rides at or better than an equivalent foam fiberglass board
4. weighing LESS THAN 6 POUNDS, preferrably closer to 5.25
5. with durability meeting or exceeding a similarly shaped foam/fiber board
6. with raw wood (and clear fiberglass if you wish) as the exterior artistic finish
7. within reasonable cost limits, say less then $800 US
8. HOLLOW or mostly HOLLOW
9. and WOOD being the predominant material used for its construction
If that is the goal, then good luck to you. I would say that is impossible.
Its been tried, and it has failed. Hess is the standard and he cannot do it either, he's not even close.
However, if you remove one or more of these requirements, it is not only possible, but within reasonable reach. Again, Hess is the standard. The non wood standard is Aviso. From what Kendall has said, Hydro-Epic spent millions, they went bust.
So again, good luck. When you achieve the impossible, please let us know which physical laws of nature you have violated along the way.
Im stoked for Kit, he is shooting for the moon which is commendable. I remember my engineering senior year very well - good friends and good fun. Fryed some brain cells studying for final exams tho. My head STILL HURTS and that was 1993!!!
PS - IMO, negativity and realism are vastly different concepts and attitudes.
Man, that's embarrasing.
I'm tired of being a janitor and cleaning up their mess.
Sounds like good job security...go with it!
Havaard - this is already being done, I have two examples of such in my “projects” pile (things to be built). While it saves some time on ribs & backbone there is still a great deal of work (and time) involved… I also have a space constraint in that I really don’t have space to leave a half-built HWS on a rocker table, which is why mine have stayed in the same “will I ever finish it” status as sharkcountry’s, above.
Crafty, thanks for the wishes.
Also, the figures you have provided give this project something to aim for. Personally, I’ll use the figures you’ve provided as my ultimate goal.
I think comparing wood to foam is the problem, a wooden board won’t ride like a foam board, they’re two totally different beasties. So my experiment is not trying to make a foam board out of wood.
But if a wooden board’s weight, volume, size, foil etc can be matched to a “standard” foam board’s dimensions, do think that is a valid challenge?
Also, i think Hess has some great ideas, but personally, i think he could make his process even better. I read somewhere, someone had fixed a ding on a hess and the core was solid eps like a compsand, but don’t quote me on it.
I think HWS work better as longboards. If you are trying to develop a shortboard HWS that is comparable in performance to your standard potato chip, you will be hitting the practical limits of wood construction. To get the weight any lower, you would have to start shaving down the thickness of the skins to the point where it is not serving as structural support anymore. At that point, it is just a wood laminated foam board and not a true HWS.
Excellent points billybob.
Thats exactly the challenge, to use as little wood as possible, but still have adequate strength.
This will not have any foam in it at all, purely wood, epoxy, and e-glass.
Shaving down the thickness of skins - thats one way of approaching the problem, but not my way
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But if a wooden board's weight, volume, size, foil etc can be matched to a "standard" foam board's dimensions, do think that is a valid challenge?
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Actually I think Ive taken this thread way off track with my own thoughts and opinions. I would like to know what Kit thinks of your challenge and whether it is in line with his uni project.
Dont quote me but I think its low weight, high durability and 'reasonable' cost.
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I read somewhere, someone had fixed a ding on a hess and the core was solid eps like a compsand, but don't quote me on it.
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Just knock on it, if its truly hollow it should ring like a drum.
Hopefully you will be sharing the results of your efforts on Sways.