Usual story, longtime follower of the site first time posting… Used the archive search quite a bit instead of asking. Thanks to everyone for all the help in the past, crazy amount of info and knowledge on this site. Now have a pretty specific question and didn’t have much luck finding it in a search.
Been fixing my own boards since I was 14, now 32. Building board number 11, so not my first rodeo, also not a pro by any means.
This one is a 4’11" mini simmons inspired diamond tail quad. Stringerless blank from a block of what I think is 2lb eps. Guy I got it from on craigslist wasn’t sure what density it was, but judging by weight and comparing it to 2lb blanks I’ve got in the past it’s pretty close. My plan is to veneer 2 1/2" wide strips of eastern red cedar on the whole deck about 1 1/2" in from the outline of the board, probably right where I’m going to do my cutlap from the bottom lam. The strips will be 3/16" thick and range from 12" to 16" long. Going to epoxy them to the deck then normal double 4 oz for deck lam. Going with 6oz on the bottom, not too worried about weight
My main question is whether I should put something on the bottom to stiffen the board up. Not too worried about flex, will mostly be surfing it when the tide gets high or when I don’t want to ride a longboard. But I do want to be able put the thing on rail and surf it.
Also any suggestions for putting the cedar on is greatly appreciated. I don’t really have the cash to get a vacuum set-up, I know that would be my best bet. Any others tricks?
Are you doing the veneer on the deck for looks, or is it intended to be structural?
If the foam you have is indeed 2-lb EPS, it strikes me you are perhaps overbuilding on the deckside. Single 6-oz on the bottom is probably sufficient, especially given the short length and I assume extra thickness as it’s a mini-sim.
I’ve done a couple 2-lb stringerless boards, and feel that double 4-oz bottom and triple 4-oz top is rock solid and easy-peazy.
It will be mostly structural but for looks as well. In the process of making the quad set-up from the same piece of wood. Might just go with 4 oz on both deck and bottom, would need to get some though. Planned on the 6 oz cause it’s what I have
Assuming that you lam the bottom first and cutlap at 1 1/2”on the deck, you should be able to glue or resin the wood onto the deck and the six ounce one layer free lapped or cutlap over the deck and onto the bottom. I suppose the right way would be to put a layer of slow expoy and 2 or 4oz Cloth under the veneer and vacuum bag. Then top it off with 4 or 6. Four is plenty strong over veneer.
…if you are not worried about weight, like you say, the process is like McDing is saying; but that density of PS is not so light.
If you want to put the board on the rails why to shape or build that kind of board in first instance?
Anyway, do it four finned not with those ears fins; use the same area but divide it in four parts. Put a heavy V between. Very low entry rocker but shape a kick tail behind the fading V.
I think you are going to have trouble with the cedar strips. 3/16 is too thick to bend and follow deck contours. Especially without a vac bag. I’ve done a fair number of bamboo strips using small domino sized pieces and had to bag them. You’ll need to first tape all the pieces together on an assembly table with the tape on the deck side. Search the archives for compsand builds for more details and tips.
Guess I should have been more specific with my shape and design. Board is more a simmons inspired build than anything. Mostly the rocker, 2 3/4" in the nose and 1 1/4" in the tail. Rolled vee to single to inset double with vee just behind rear quads and out diamond. 4’11" x 21 1/4" x 2 5/8"
New to the stringerless blank thing so wasn’t sure how flexible they were without a stringer. As far as why I’m shaping this board… I’ve got 3 other blanks from this block of foam and wanted to do something different
I’ll do some more digging, thanks for the suggestions guys. I’ve got a table in the works for piecing it together, going to be a long process. Maybe by then I have a vacuum set-up…
if weight of board is a concern you will be dissapointed with the 2 lb foam. Get some foam 1lb or less density, cut length wise and place 1/8" five lb foam stringer and glue in. 1/5" red cedar is too heavy and tecnically not veneer, Veneer wood is 1/40" thick. I know the process is “veneering” but get some 1/40" red cedar to keep weight down. Find Greg Loher’s videos on vac bagging veneer on a board with glassing tips. The video is exactly what you are trying to do but lighter and strong enough to surf on it like it is a rental board.
Hi - I’ve assembled a few pre-fab deck skins and here is how I did it. If you have access to a thickness planer, run your strips through to as thin as you can. I think mine ended up around 1/8" before slipping and/or breaking. Place them on a flat non-porous table and tape all the joints together - I did mine across first, then taped along all the lengthwise joints. This is to hold it all together and to keep resin from oozing through from other side. I used some light fiberglass cloth and laminated one side (what will become the inside) on the table and sealed a vacuum membrane over it with butyl rubber tape around the edges. I applied vacuum while it cured just to keep everything flat. I also used some nylon peel ply and absorbant material to suck up any resin that managed to seep though the joints. Once cured, I placed some templates over the panel and traced an outline that approximated the outline of the board but a couple of inches inside. Once that was cut out, I faired the edges and traced that exact curve on to the board’s deck. I cut a slight recess inside that curve… approx. the depth of the panel thickness. On board pictured I used a blank with perimeter stringers so kept my pre-fab panel with those curves so it would fit inside the stringers. After masking off around the recess, I rolled some resin on both the blank and the panel before vacuuming the panel in place. The panel was placed with the fiberglass laminate on the inside - against the blank. Once that cured, I picked off all the masking tape and debris before glassing over the panel with 4oz. I carried the laps all the way around the rail on to the bottom. Once that was cleaned up, I glassed the bottom and again, carried the laps all the way over the rail and slightly over the edge of the panel. The rest was completed like a normal board.
…I did not read that the veneer is so sick; yes, not a veneer in fact. But the simple method is like was mentioned.
Regarding these PS boards without stringers; the other day went to a surf shop to chat what types of boards they wanted, in the meantime I checked these new Slater boards (at a hefty price at least here) that are HP and looked stringerless, also you can see the foam, not so clearly but you can see it, like a milky shadow on it; then you can see a wide strap of may be bamboo or similar on top of the foam but under the glass. The boards are all white and are very light, but if you do the thumb test, dents easier than PU boards, so I do not see them as durable like the others.
These ones do not have the high density PU stringers. They are very new, not like previous iterations.
stiffen skin so they are harder to buckle and you don’t need a stringer. short thick board don’t need a stringer. most production hyper light stringerless boards are fake, cheap build sold at high price thanks to carbon fashion strips and techy marketing. with stringerless make your deck strong+ your rails++ and your bottom=.
I think if you follow the advice of John Mellor or bb30 you will be well served. Taping the pieces together using Greg Tate’s method is solid advice. A friend who used to post here quite a bit was by my shop for the first time in a long time to buy a Marko 2lb molded blank. He has done a lot of compsand boards over the years and he did mention to me that he used 1lb for his skinned boards. I think you will be fine on the rocker unless you wait too long between the top and bottom. The shape sounds fine to me. Hope you can put up a few pics as you go. Nice to see you posting. Knew a shaper on Maui who used to come over to the shop and pick up his blank after the bottom lam. He would take it to his home shop and vac bag a veneer deck onto the foam and then take it back to the glass shop to be finished. Lowel
Thanks for the advice, I’ll try and find that video. I’ve actually only cut one strip out with my bandsaw so maybe I’ll try and see how thin I can go. Really like the idea of glassing a 4 oz piece to what will be the inside of the wood. Sounds a lot easier gluing one piece one rather than getting everything in place while I’m gluing. I’ll get some pics up of what I’ve got some far
Greg Loehr demonstrated this sort of thing in detail at Cerritos College in Southern California several years back. Try a Google search for “Greg Loehr Timberflex” or “Greg Loehr Cerritos.” He used bamboo veneer but the principle is the same… that is, a prefabbed skin vacuumed over a shaped core.
The board I posted a pic of was a urethane foam core. The technique works fine with EPS or urethane but if light weight is a priority, go with 1 lb EPS.
FWIW the guy who has the board I made still dents the decks on the skins I’ve made using 1/8" thick cedar strips. They last a lot longer than a standard glass job but I’m not claiming ‘bullet proof’ technology or anything. I absolutely could not dent the decks with my thumb.
If you have known pressure points at which your boards typically dent, consider additional reinforcement patches under the skin in those areas.
2lb EPS does not need veneer for structural reasons. I’ve done quite a few stringerless boards with PU, EPS and XPS foam. Just glass as you would a normal board, but make the laps wide like they do on longboads using volan. The strength will be in the rails.
I only put wood on light EPS 1lb or less. I glass 1.5lb EPS with 3 layers on the deck. For a nice hard lamination, do a post cure heating, or cure with heat.
Here’s what I have so far. Fins still need to be touched up before foiling. After stepping back and taking the picture, and looking at the picture I’m probably going to pull the nose in a bit. I Frankensteined the outline together from some random templates I had and never took a minute to really look at it.
