I’ve built boards mostly in the 8-2 to 8-6 range. I’ve bought most of my glass fabric from a Fla outfit, 6 oz. standard E fabric. Through trial and error I discovered that I needed 1.5 oz of epoxy resin mix per side, per board foot, per glass layer. I recently bought 6 oz. warp E glass from Fiberglass Supply. I just glassed the bottom of my 9-6 longboard with it and got a shock. My 1.5 epoxy resin ratio was soaked up with my rails still dry. I mixed more resin and finished the rails, but the final resin requirement was almost 2 oz. per side, per board foot, per glass layer. The temperature was about 60deg F …a little cooler than I usually glass in. What’s going on? I thought warp cloth was supposed to soak up less resin! Was the Florida place shipping me 4 oz. fabric? It didn’t look that thin. Is Fiberglass Supply’s 6 oz. warp E fabric really 8 oz. fabric? How much resin normally gets soaked up by 6 oz cloth? I thought I knew!
Noodle: I don’t know whether you heated your resin beyond the 60 degree room temp or not and I certainly don’t have any experience with epoxy. I’ve found that cold, unheated polyester resin will take higher volumes of resin to wet out the cloth. I suppose you could also end up with more resin on the finished lam (heavier end product) as well since the flow properties are so distorted in the cold weather. I had good luck using a Salvation Army recycled waterbed heater wrapped around my 5 gal. resin barrel last winter, $3.50 investment that even has a thermostat setting at 70 degrees. Tom S.>>> I’ve built boards mostly in the 8-2 to 8-6 range. I’ve bought most of my > glass fabric from a Fla outfit, 6 oz. standard E fabric. Through trial and > error I discovered that I needed 1.5 oz of epoxy resin mix per side, per > board foot, per glass layer.>>> I recently bought 6 oz. warp E glass from Fiberglass Supply. I just > glassed the bottom of my 9-6 longboard with it and got a shock. My 1.5 > epoxy resin ratio was soaked up with my rails still dry. I mixed more > resin and finished the rails, but the final resin requirement was almost 2 > oz. per side, per board foot, per glass layer. The temperature was about > 60deg F …a little cooler than I usually glass in.>>> What’s going on? I thought warp cloth was supposed to soak up less resin! > Was the Florida place shipping me 4 oz. fabric? It didn’t look that thin. > Is Fiberglass Supply’s 6 oz. warp E fabric really 8 oz. fabric?>>> How much resin normally gets soaked up by 6 oz cloth? I thought I knew!
Hey Noodle I just laminated my epoxy this weekend. 6’5" I used 24oz. (including hardner) to lam the bottom with a single layer of 6oz. warp plus. I used 36oz. on the top for 2 layers of 6oz. warp (I had about 4 to 5 oz. left over on each side). It was 60 degrees, it took a while but it kick and the next day it was hard as a rock. That resin is trippy. It is like working with melted plastic until you get the hardner mixed in. I am doing the sanding layer tonite. I am going to heat the pot with hot water before I add my hardner. I heard when heated it will flow like water. I am just wondering what will happen as it cools of to room temp. It will likely be in the 50s tonite, (maybe colder). We’ll see. Back to your problem, the cloth switch could not result in that much of a difference in absorbtion. May be a little bit, but could it be the foam? Did you use less spackle or a different brand, which might allow more resin to penetrate the foam? Was the density of the foam different than normal? Maybe you got something other than 2lb. foam? I guess you could do a test to see the difference resin absorbtion? I would check the foam first. Good luck and thanks for all your help with the epoxy. I think I am going to like it.
Hey Noodle I just laminated my epoxy this weekend. 6’5" I used 24oz. > (including hardner) to lam the bottom with a single layer of 6oz. warp > plus. I used 36oz. on the top for 2 layers of 6oz. warp (I had about 4 to > 5 oz. left over on each side). It was 60 degrees, it took a while but it > kick and the next day it was hard as a rock. That resin is trippy. It is > like working with melted plastic until you get the hardner mixed in. I am > doing the sanding layer tonite. I am going to heat the pot with hot water > before I add my hardner. I heard when heated it will flow like water. I am > just wondering what will happen as it cools of to room temp. It will > likely be in the 50s tonite, (maybe colder). We’ll see.>>> Back to your problem, the cloth switch could not result in that much of a > difference in absorbtion. May be a little bit, but could it be the foam? > Did you use less spackle or a different brand, which might allow more > resin to penetrate the foam? Was the density of the foam different than > normal? Maybe you got something other than 2lb. foam? I guess you could do > a test to see the difference resin absorbtion? I would check the foam > first. Good luck and thanks for all your help with the epoxy. I think I am > going to like it. I used 57 oz on 9’6" of surfboard, 3 layers of 6 oz glass. I guess I should start expecting something like the 2.0 soakup ratio I got and be happy. Your rate was somewhere near 2.4 for the top glass. Epoxy is strange stuff. I like the Fiberglass Supply 112 epoxy which I used this time. I mixed it with cheaper Raka epoxy. The surface isn’t slicking off like with other epoxies I’ve used.
Noodle:>>> I don’t know whether you heated your resin beyond the 60 degree room temp > or not and I certainly don’t have any experience with epoxy. I’ve found > that cold, unheated polyester resin will take higher volumes of resin to > wet out the cloth. I suppose you could also end up with more resin on the > finished lam (heavier end product) as well since the flow properties are > so distorted in the cold weather. I had good luck using a Salvation Army > recycled waterbed heater wrapped around my 5 gal. resin barrel last > winter, $3.50 investment that even has a thermostat setting at 70 degrees.>>> Tom S. I’m so used to trying to slow down epoxys hardening time in warmer weather. I’ve even refrigerated it before glassing. By the time I got the resin on the board the weather was warming the resin nicely. I suspect you’re right. This cooler weather must be increasing the glass absorption rate some. But by 33%? I would guess at an increase in resin volume of 10% or less. I also suspect two other factors. I just looked at my glass supplier, Fiberglass Supply’s website. FS quotes their 5.6 oz glass as 5.6 oz. I suspect my new 6 oz warp E glass is actually 6 ounces per square yard. My previous supplier didn’t quote decimal places behind their glass weights. They may have been rounding 5.6 ounces up to 6 ounces, a differece of 7%. The third factor, I’m trying to factor needed resin by factoring board length into the equation. As one makes longer boards, one lengthens the middle, wide part of the board. The glass area for longer boards would increase at a greater rate, maybe 15% greater, than board length. Next time I’ll try and juggle these numbers and see how close they are to reality. Thanks for the help, Tom. Next time I plan to glass in cool weather I’ll put the resin indoors for a few hours first. Somehow I doubt that I can come across a $3.50 temperature controlled resin heater like you did. Wow, what a buy!
I’m using SS2000 epoxy resin from surfsource.net. When it kicks it does not slick off either. It is kind of expensive - like $45 for a 1.5 gallon kit (1 gallon resin half gallon hardner). All said in done it cost me about $65 to get it shipped (tax included). I was real suprised as to how hard the resin is after it kicked. Way stronger than poly. Do you think I am pushing my luck trying to do my sanding layer in such cold temps (I just checked, tonite will be in the upper 30s)? I am debating on whether or not to go for it. Like I said I will heat up the resin, but I don’t know what the cold temps will do to the resin as it starts to cool. The place where I glass is about an hour drive from where I live. I am trying to get the sanding layer done so I can set the fins and sand by this weekend. I heard from somewhere that the temp at which you cure an epoxy is directly related to the temp the board has to reach to delaminate. I think this refers to the epoxy resins of old. If not I think we are both screwed.
Noodle: I think you nailed it, surface area, cloth specs and temperature could easily have accounted for the increased volume of resin it took. I’ve wondered about those far fetched weight ratings on the various types of cloth. Good Luck Tom>>> I’m so used to trying to slow down epoxys hardening time in warmer > weather. I’ve even refrigerated it before glassing. By the time I got the > resin on the board the weather was warming the resin nicely.>>> I suspect you’re right. This cooler weather must be increasing the glass > absorption rate some. But by 33%? I would guess at an increase in resin > volume of 10% or less.>>> I also suspect two other factors. I just looked at my glass supplier, > Fiberglass Supply’s website. FS quotes their 5.6 oz glass as 5.6 oz. I > suspect my new 6 oz warp E glass is actually 6 ounces per square yard. My > previous supplier didn’t quote decimal places behind their glass weights. > They may have been rounding 5.6 ounces up to 6 ounces, a differece of 7%.>>> The third factor, I’m trying to factor needed resin by factoring board > length into the equation. As one makes longer boards, one lengthens the > middle, wide part of the board. The glass area for longer boards would > increase at a greater rate, maybe 15% greater, than board length.>>> Next time I’ll try and juggle these numbers and see how close they are to > reality.>>> Thanks for the help, Tom. Next time I plan to glass in cool weather I’ll > put the resin indoors for a few hours first. Somehow I doubt that I can > come across a $3.50 temperature controlled resin heater like you did. Wow, > what a buy!
I’m using SS2000 epoxy resin from surfsource.net. When it kicks it does > not slick off either. It is kind of expensive - like $45 for a 1.5 gallon > kit (1 gallon resin half gallon hardner). All said in done it cost me > about $65 to get it shipped (tax included). I was real suprised as to how > hard the resin is after it kicked. Way stronger than poly. Do you think I > am pushing my luck trying to do my sanding layer in such cold temps (I > just checked, tonite will be in the upper 30s)? I am debating on whether > or not to go for it. Like I said I will heat up the resin, but I don’t > know what the cold temps will do to the resin as it starts to cool. The > place where I glass is about an hour drive from where I live. I am trying > to get the sanding layer done so I can set the fins and sand by this > weekend.>>> I heard from somewhere that the temp at which you cure an epoxy is > directly related to the temp the board has to reach to delaminate. I think > this refers to the epoxy resins of old. If not I think we are both > screwed. I’ve never heard that. I’ve glassed with epoxy in springtime weather before with no problems in summer. My epoxy glass job was hardening in 40 degree temperatures overnight. I suspect freezing weather would arrest epoxy hardening. But I suspect hardening would resume with warming. I’ve never sanding coat-ed with epoxy. I’ve always done it with poly. Now I use Suncure which sets real fast in the sun, no matter what the temperature is.
I’m using SS2000 epoxy resin from surfsource.net. When it kicks it does > not slick off either. It is kind of expensive - like $45 for a 1.5 gallon > kit (1 gallon resin half gallon hardner). All said in done it cost me > about $65 to get it shipped (tax included). Since I’m in the market for resin fast, I got interested in your price from Surf Source. $65 to $80 per gallon are the usual prices for UV inhibited clear lam epoxy in 1-2 gallon quantities. Your price sounds too good to be true. Did you pay $45 for the 1.5 gallon kit (as you said), or per gallon? Did you really buy epoxy from Surf Source, or was it somebody else? Is your resin UV inhibited, clear surfboard lam epoxy? Raka’s price for raw epoxy (amber with no UV protection) doesn’t touch your price in a 3 gallon kit. I visited Surfsource.net and could find no epoxy resin there. I called Surf Source and am waiting for them to call back. What’s the deal? -Noodle
Yes it is all true. Here is the URL: http://www.surfsource.net/Manufacturing/Resin%20Accessories/resinandaccessories.htm If you go to surfsource.net go the manufactorer section and then to resin, it is the fourth one down. The kit comes with hardner. And is UV inhibited, I am sure they can answer all your questions. They have a 800 number but I don’t have it off hand. The regular number is 904-247-0808. They will hook you up. It sounds like you are paying too much. Let me know if you need more help.
Yes it is all true. Here is the URL: > http://www.surfsource.net/Manufacturing/Resin%20Accessories/resinandaccessories.htm>>> If you go to surfsource.net go the manufactorer section and then to resin, > it is the fourth one down. The kit comes with hardner. And is UV > inhibited, I am sure they can answer all your questions. They have a 800 > number but I don’t have it off hand. The regular number is 904-247-0808. > They will hook you up. It sounds like you are paying too much. Let me know > if you need more help. I found the Surf Source epoxy. I’m on it. Thanks Mike!
Noodle I sent your question to Doug at Fiberglass Supply(vacation address) and got this answer that I can post. Style 7533, 5.6 oz. fabric which is what is normally referred to and sold in the industry as 6 oz. cloth is actually 5.6 ounces per square yard. Style 7580, 6 oz. warp fabric is 6 ounces per square yard. Style 7580, 6 oz. warp is a heavier fabric (more fiberglass) which naturally requires more resin for complete wet out and the resultant stronger laminate. On our Web Site, www.fiberglasssupply.com under Reinforcements, fabrics are described by ther A factor in the viscosity of liquids is temperature, with reduced temperatures generally resulting in higher viscosity’s or liquids that exhibit increased resistance to flow. Laminating at lower temperatures will generally result in greater resin usage (a heavier laminate) due to the apparent higher viscosity (thickness) of the resin imparted by the reduced temperature. This is especially true with epoxy resins. Individuals who do not accurately measure, mix and keep records of associated factors such as temperature will never notice or begun to fully understand variations in the materials. Responding to this type of problem is always a pleasure when the source of the issue is so straight. > I’ve built boards mostly in the 8-2 to 8-6 range. I’ve bought most of my > glass fabric from a Fla outfit, 6 oz. standard E fabric. Through trial and > error I discovered that I needed 1.5 oz of epoxy resin mix per side, per > board foot, per glass layer.>>> I recently bought 6 oz. warp E glass from Fiberglass Supply. I just > glassed the bottom of my 9-6 longboard with it and got a shock. My 1.5 > epoxy resin ratio was soaked up with my rails still dry. I mixed more > resin and finished the rails, but the final resin requirement was almost 2 > oz. per side, per board foot, per glass layer. The temperature was about > 60deg F …a little cooler than I usually glass in.>>> What’s going on? I thought warp cloth was supposed to soak up less resin! > Was the Florida place shipping me 4 oz. fabric? It didn’t look that thin. > Is Fiberglass Supply’s 6 oz. warp E fabric really 8 oz. fabric?>>> How much resin normally gets soaked up by 6 oz cloth? I thought I knew! http://www.viser.net/~anthwind/
I missed copied the first time. Noodle Style 7533, 5.6 oz. fabric which is what is normally referred to and sold in the industry as 6 oz. cloth is actually 5.6 ounces per square yard. Style 7580, 6 oz. warp fabric is 6 ounces per square yard. Style 7580, 6 oz. warp is a heavier fabric (more fiberglass) which naturally requires more resin for complete wet out and the resultant stronger laminate. On our Web Site, www.fiberglasssupply.com under Reinforcements, fabrics are described by ther A factor in the viscosity of liquids is temperature, with reduced temperatures generally resulting in higher viscosity’s or liquids that exhibit increased resistance to flow. Laminating at lower temperatures will generally result in greater resin usage (a heavier laminate) due to the apparent higher viscosity (thickness) of the resin imparted by the reduced temperature. This is especially true with epoxy resins. Individuals who do not accurately measure, mix and keep records of associated factors such as temperature will never notice or begun to fully understand variations in the materials. Responding to this type of problem is always a pleasure when the source of the issue is so straight forward.>>> I’ve built boards mostly in the 8-2 to 8-6 range. I’ve bought most of my > glass fabric from a Fla outfit, 6 oz. standard E fabric. Through trial and > error I discovered that I needed 1.5 oz of epoxy resin mix per side, per > board foot, per glass layer.>>> I recently bought 6 oz. warp E glass from Fiberglass Supply. I just > glassed the bottom of my 9-6 longboard with it and got a shock. My 1.5 > epoxy resin ratio was soaked up with my rails still dry. I mixed more > resin and finished the rails, but the final resin requirement was almost 2 > oz. per side, per board foot, per glass layer. The temperature was about > 60deg F …a little cooler than I usually glass in.>>> What’s going on? I thought warp cloth was supposed to soak up less resin! > Was the Florida place shipping me 4 oz. fabric? It didn’t look that thin. > Is Fiberglass Supply’s 6 oz. warp E fabric really 8 oz. fabric?>>> How much resin normally gets soaked up by 6 oz cloth? I thought I knew! http://www.viser.net/~anthwind/
Anthony, Thanks alot for the followup, and corresponding with Fiberglass Supply. Next time I’ll try and laminate a little warmer. I’ll also consider the added strength and weight in my next layup schedule. 3 layers of the REAL 6 oz warp E on bottom was probably overkill. Maybe I should mount a foghorn. -Noodle