ResinX

…in several threads G Loehr supposed that Im an advocate of Polyesters and that I have a negative speech to Epoxies

wrong,

but not until now that there s an epoxy resin for surfboards (appropriate chem, cristal clear, UV stable, etc)

AND is not available all around the world like polyesters

AND you need to be so pricky to obtain a pro quality work in other case is a pain in the axx

for Countries with low temp and lot of humidity is very difficult to work with epoxies

is very difficult to obtain the same gloss (show finish) that you can obtain with polyesters; even with lam+SA polyesters you can obtain such a nice gloss

yes, you can talk about performance and not detailing

of course, I believe in performance; and in most boards I speed finished them

what I try to say

that your resin sounds pretty interesting like the RR one

but I think that it need to be “bullet proof” or “dumb proof” like polyesters to hit the worlwide market

not only some super state of the art work environments

you know, from the last 50 years there s many undergrounds doing superb boards, not only shapes…yes, I know that there s no the money s place…but is the place for the real surfing

mega factories is where the money belong, but I dont want a board that the guy put 20 minutes to shape and so on

sadly these places are the “industry” and what resin they use is what resin we ll use…

Please…do vent. This is excellent dialogue and we’re all learning a lot. Thanks for taking the time to talk to us.

I have not tried your resin. But I hope it’s only a matter of time. I have no doubt that you believe in your product, that it has great things to add to the industry, and it’s going to make for a lot of great sessions in the water for a lot of people. I truely wish you well (so maybe I can get some snap back into my top turns!).

Right now, having heard what you’ve said about disclosure on the can, what I’d really like to see is the text of the lable posted. I know that may not be possible, but it would help this discussion.

Again… thanks for taking the time to enter into this dialogue with the Sways community.

I am waiting on a 9’1’’ longboard quad ,shaped from a Marko blank and being glassed with resin-x that is being built now in New Jersey.I can’t wait to get my hands on it,I will post after I get it and ride it. Good luck with new resin ,The person building my board had nothing but good things to say about working with it.

I only work in wood, so I know that this will only matter to a few of you. I use poly from time to time. But mostly we use epoxy. I love my RR and I don’t mind waiting for everything to cure before I sand - I mean hell, if I a customer has ordered a wood board, the least they can do is wait until it is cured, right? And even with these two options, I can’t wait to try my X. Matt has been fantastic in answering all of my questions, has given me all of the information that I have asked for, and the stuff sounds intriguing. On top of that, if Marlin is using it, I am interested.

As long as I can’t get away without resin, I’ll keep looking for something better.

Long live options.

Long live those who slam the options. Without you, the rest of us wouldn’t be “The Fringe”.

Lars

Quote:

Like, I don’t think that your prior near-psychotic rants against the epoxy resin surf industry in any way led you to any sort of conspiracy when you wrote the above post?

If you read my rants in a James Earl Jones voice they sound less psychotic.

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Quote:

Like, I don’t think that your prior near-psychotic rants against the epoxy resin surf industry in any way led you to any sort of conspiracy when you wrote the above post?

If you read my rants in a James Earl Jones voice they sound less psychotic.

Would that be J.E.J. as Thulsa Doom?

or as the voice of Vader?

Most likely as Terence Mann

Thanks for the chuckle TFAD.

Got another board out there, but the guy suddenly isn’t in the mood to surf, so no feedback. Frick. Surfed with the owner of the first one, and it’s holding up great and he really likes how it rides. He’s a hell of a surfer, too. He says the flexibility of the board makes it more forgiving, but he’s no cruiser. Hopefully next week I can work on one for myself. Depends how much work I get done this week.

Our MSDS has been posted on the internet for over 10 years. WTF are you talking about? Just look resinresearch.net

I’m telling you guys about something I think you should know about. 5 parts per billion is the TLV of diisocyanate products. Be careful. Just so you know the difference, polyester’s TLV is 200 parts per million. That’s 40,000 times safer.

That means your shop can have 40,000 times the styrene fumes as fumes of diisocyanate and be safe. Matt hasn’t told you that has he? I thought it might be something you should know. He was quoted on Surfermag.com that you don’t even have to use a mask. I disagree.

That’s the only point I’ve been trying to make … sorry to have wasted your time.

Matt,

The information on surfermag.com was very misleading about the safety of the product. It quoted you as saying, " you don’t even have to wear a mask." It also quoted you as saying there was no TDI or MDI. Diisocyanates are VERY toxic, you know this and your customers do not. I felt this to be misleading … I’m sorry but I still do. As far as reading the can for them, what can I say, we’re surfers. You may have to. I question selling this to anyone but pros … and even then … Surfboard factories are not exactly high tech work places and the practices in them have not, in many cases, changed much since the 60’s.

Although this may seem transparent to people reading this I am not threatened by resin that costs this much. It will most likely be a niche item and if it’s more than that I congradulate you. Honesty needs to be put forth by those of us in the position of supply. I hope I’ve made my point since we both sell potentially dangerous chemicals.

To everyone else, I have questioned Matt’s honesty based on what I’ve seen on the blogs. I may have jumped to conclusions but my main goal here was to address the potential dangers of diisocyanate chemistry so that all you guys at least had the information. I didn’t feel it had been addressed adaquately from what I’d seen.

Quote:

Matt,

The information on surfermag.com was very misleading about the safety of the product. It quoted you as saying, " you don’t even have to wear a mask." It also quoted you as saying there was no TDI or MDI. Diisocyanates are VERY toxic, you know this and your customers do not. I felt this to be misleading … I’m sorry but I still do. As far as reading the can for them, what can I say, we’re surfers. You may have to. I question selling this to anyone but pros … and even then … Surfboard factories are not exactly high tech work places and the practices in them have not, in many cases, changed much since the 60’s.

Although this may seem transparent to people reading this I am not threatened by resin that costs this much. It will most likely be a niche item and if it’s more than that I congradulate you. Honesty needs to be put forth by those of us in the position of supply. I hope I’ve made my point since we both sell potentially dangerous chemicals.

To everyone else, I have questioned Matt’s honesty based on what I’ve seen on the blogs. I may have jumped to conclusions but my main goal here was to address the potential dangers of diisocyanate chemistry so that all you guys at least had the information. I didn’t feel it had been addressed adaquately from what I’d seen.

[/url]<span style="font-weight:bold"><a href="http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/showprofile.php?Cat=0&User=26031&Number=1272396&Board=UBB4&what=showflat&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1" class="bb-url">mitten</a></span> 

Grom

Reged: 10/29/07

Posts: 12

 <img src="http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/images/icons/book.gif" alt="" class="bb-image" /> <span style="font-weight:bold">Re: Resin- X... What's the scoop? </span>[Re: <a href="http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=1272356&page=0&vc=1" class="bb-url">Doug93003</a>] 

  #1272396 - 11/07/07 06:54 PM <span style="font-style:italic"></span>[/url]     <img src="http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/images/edit.gif" alt="" class="bb-image" /> Edit    <a href="http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/newreply.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB4&Number=1272396&page=0&what=showflat&fpart=1&vc=1" class="bb-url"><img src="http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/images/reply.gif" alt="" class="bb-image" /> Reply </a>   <a href="http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/newreply.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB4&Number=1272396&page=0&what=showflat&fpart=1&vc=1&q=1" class="bb-url"><img src="http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/images/quote.gif" alt="" class="bb-image" /> Quote </a>   [URL=javascript:quickReply(16)]<img src="http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/images/reply.gif" alt="" class="bb-image" /> Quick Reply [/URL]     

Heavy Footed, price is a little more than epoxy, availability in your area through specific distributer is in the works. Right now they would have to get a hold me. Possibly mid December.

Doug93003 Resin-X is 100% solids, there for no vapor, the respirator is Marlin’s choice, I personally do not wear one with this product, However If I owned a shop it would be mandatory, I think The Moonlight Crew is very responsible, Everyone there wears a mask.

http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/showflat.php?Number=1268365&page=0

Greg, is this the thread you are referring to? I can’t find a mention where respirators aren’t necessary.

I appreciate critical input and I agree that we all need to take precautions, with ANY chemical used to make a surfboard whether it be the resin, additives, or the solvents used in cleanup. It’s all nasty stuff.

Doug93003 Resin-X is 100% solids, there for no vapor, the respirator is Marlin’s choice, I personally do not wear one with this product,


Yes, this was posted by Matt himself.

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Doug93003 Resin-X is 100% solids, there for no vapor, the respirator is Marlin's choice, I personally do not wear one with this product,

Yes, this was posted by Matt himself.

Isocyanates are not a VOC.

But they are an exposure risk at low levels.

A respirator with an organic or particulate filter will not be effective. Well, if you used an organic thinner like styrene it would be effective against the styrene, but the isocyanate is cruising right through. You would need an airline respirator with a clean air source if in fact levels of isocyanates were above exposure limits and you were reactive.

And people should know this about urethane exposures. The standard respirators are not helpful.

A more typical workplace response would be to test the levels and adjust the air exchange rate upwards so that the exposure levels were within limits. And, make other workplace adjustments to minimize airborn isocyanates. Because airline respirators are a pain in the a55.

Safety first, before you get hurt.

Does charcoal not adsorb isocyanate? I thought a lot of organic cartridges had charcoal in them.

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Doug93003 Resin-X is 100% solids, there for no vapor, the respirator is Marlin’s choice, I personally do not wear one with this product,


Yes, this was posted by Matt himself.

So I guess if you leave off the part where he states that if he had a glass shop, respirators would be mandatory, then he said it was okay not to use one?

…yes, is like Blakestah and Loehr said

also, I use a speed finish based on a Glasurit product

and this clear contains 2 ingredients that the 3M and Moldex 6000, 7000 respirators arent effective in a proper way

(to work)

CAS number: 108-10-1

              123-86-4
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Does charcoal not adsorb isocyanate? I thought a lot of organic cartridges had charcoal in them.

There’s a lot of literature out there. Mainly, when charcoal gets saturated with isocyanates, you cannot tell. Changing the cartridges regularly would work, but only if you knew the levels of isocyanate in the air. And if you knew the levels, you could adjust the air exchange rate and get them below the TLV. If the levels were too high for that, you are gonna need respirators with a clean air supply.

And if the levels in laminating are below the TLV anyway, there would be no worries. But if they were above the TLV, the workplace would be responsible for addressing the issue appropriately.

Thanks for that.

Well, in an attempt to quantify the actual exposure risk when using Resin X I decided to run a test. I want to make a disclaimer first. I am not a scientist, chemist, or representative of C3D in any capacity. I am just an amateur shaper with some access to this equipment through my family.

What I wanted to do is actually monitor the air quality in a confined space while preparing and using Resin X. So to simulate a “worst case” scenario I used a room 8’ x 12’ and turned off any active ventilation. The door was closed and the room had no windows opened. The Resin X I used was approximately 30 days old. This is important, because if I remember correctly from my organic chemistry classes, HDI monomer content can increase up to a certain percent by volume as the prepolymer sits on the shelf. I don’t know how much HDI monomer Resin X contains, but I know most modern isocyante activators used in urethane coatings dont contain much monomer anymore.

For reference the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) developed a REL for HDI monomer of 35 µg/m3 or 0.005 parts per million (ppm), but has not established a recommended exposure limit for the HDI prepolymer. The NIOSH REL is a time-weighted-average value for a normal working lifetime (up to 10 hours per day, 40 hours per week, for 40 years). NIOSH also established a ceiling value of 140 µg/m3 (0.020 ppm) for HDI monomer . A ceiling value is a concentration that should not be exceeded during any part of the working exposure; if instantaneous monitoring is not feasible, the ceiling must be assessed as a 10-minute time-weighted-average exposure for HDI monomer.

I know someone has been trying to scare everyone ranting and raving about how low the REL or TLV (TLV is actually a trademarked term) is for HDI but keep in mind that REL or TLV is a time weighted average for an entire working lifetime. Furthermore, keep in mind that the values are only for HDI monomer, not HDI prepolymer. An exposure limit for the HDI prepolymer has not been established by OSHA, NIOSH or ACGIH. Oregon is the only state OSHA program that has established an exposure limit for the prepolymer. Oregon’s 8-hour time-weighted average limit for HDI prepolymer is 500 µg/m3 (0.07 ppm) with a ceiling level of 1000 µg/m3 (0.14 ppm).

Someone claims that Matt is taking advantage of ‘surfers’ ignorance to chemical safety…who is really taking advantage of surfers’ ignorance to chemical safety with all the scare tactics. Sounds kinda like what the ‘industry’ did to a certain someone when he tried to get his new epoxy company off the ground…Lest we become what we despise.

Now back to the test…

The device I used is a Scott Instruments NextStep Gas Detection Monitor. It was set to continuous monitoring mode. I used an HDI cassette for this test, HDI is the isocyante found in Resin X. The machine was calibrated and found to be in accurate working order. It’s accuracy is +/- 20% of reading +/- 1 ppb. Its range for HDI is 0-500 ppb. I placed the monitor 3 feet from the table which I was working with the Resin X.

I first opened and poured 3 onces of Resin X Part A into a graduated plastic cup. I poured 2 onces of Resin X Part B into an identical graduated plastic cup. The air monitor continued to read 0 ppb. I then microwaved both parts in a small tabletop microwave until both parts of the Resin X read 95 degrees measured with a hand held inferred thermometer. I combined both parts and mixed for 20 seconds. The monitor still read 0 ppb. I then brushed the combined Resin X onto a 2x2 test panel I made, as if I was hotcoating a board. The monitor continued to read 0 ppb. I put the test panel on the table, disposed of the leftover Resin X properly, and left the room. I continued to left the monitor run for 1 hour while the Resin X cured. Still the monitor never recorded any HDI level over 0 ppb.

I concluded from these results that any free HDI present in the room is too low to be detected from the monitoring device I have. Trace amounts may exist, but I don’t have the high tech equipment require to detect such small quantities. Take this for what you want, but as far as I know its the only such test done so far. If anyone has any questions let me know. Thanks.

-Jon

Hey Jon,

Very promising, thanks for doing this.

Would you be able to do that same test with the actual resin amounts and areas that would be closer to a surfboard (or while working on an actual board)? I’d just be curious as to what it would take to even register 1 ppb on the monitor…

Thanks again,

JSS

Has anyone glossed/wetsanded/polished Resin X? How does it compare to polishing epoxy or poly?

JSS