Hi, everyone! Been looking around the site for a while, and just joined. Started my first longboard and starting to wonder if im attempting to do to much for a beginner. Here's what the plan started as- copied the template from a Stewart 9'4" ColinMcPhilips hplb, that a friend has and i've ridden a few times (i'm not an experienced longboarder, usually ride a 6'4" modern fish). Got a polyurethane USBlanks 9'9"B w "natural rocker" and streched the template into a 9'6". Got the blank cut, trued, top and bottom skinned, and the thickness dialed (been following the Pravda vid so far). Here's the dims ( i'm 6'1, 195lbs) - 9'6 3/4" x 18 3/4 x 23 x 14 1/4 x 3 1/8, gonna go with a 2+1 setup fins at 16" and 6.5", 12oz glass on the deck, 6oz on bottom. Also, im planning on riding the board in under chest high waves. Probably mushy point breaks or small summer time beach breaks, and try to learn some nose riding on it.
My problems/ questions are with shaping the bottom contours and the rails. The Stewart cmp has a concave nose, light double concave through the middle ( i think?), and a light vee out the tail. The rails are tucked in the tail to roundish in middle to sharp at the nose.
As a beginner should i even try to copy the these features? Thinking they might be difficult to glass? I've read a few posts that said to just keep the bottom flat all the way through, if so will the rails need to change also. I also don't have the stewart available to look at anymore, just some pictures. Will changing them conflict with my my boards shape?
Starting to feel like I jumped in with not enough knowledge or planning! Any advice, tips, etc. would be grealty appreciated. Thanks
He Sparky…
Keep it simple for your first longboard. Make the bottom flat
to 1/8" vee in the tail starting in front of the side fins. Set the
box at 7" on a board this length. It will help with fin placement
if you want to surf it in small waves as a single. Rails should
be 50/50 in the nose to 60/40 in the middle. Square rails are
ok in the tail. The Stewart template shape is a good all-around
one. I would go with a rounded pin for a tail shape if you haven’t
already decided on one. Concaves like you describe are not
easy to blend properly so I would not advise them on your first
lb. I have some lb pics and specific fin dimensions for boards
like yours posted on here somewhere if you feel like lookin for
them. Just my 2c.
If you have the board there with you, go ahead and copy it. Trace templates off it. Not just the out line but the bottom contours from rail to rail with particular attention at the nose and fin cluster. If you have the templates it will be easier to follow because you can lay them right on the foam instead of relying on memory or your eye. Give it a try and simply blend it out. But...since you don't have it with you maybe you can get your buddy to take photos and trace your templates for you. If so, don't forget to get rail samples also.
tblank, thanks for the advice! Thats a good idea to make a template across the rails for the bottom contours. I was just trying to eye it up and make sketches of it. My buddy with the board is down in oregon about 4hrs south, so not sure if if ill make it down there anytime soon. Thinkn i might just go ahead and make it flat...
Surfteach, thanks for the response! I definitely want to be able to ride it as a single fin, as such you want the fin to be as far forward as possible? I already shaped the tail, just kept it true to the template from the Stewart. Its a narrow performance squash, i think. i'll post a pic of it, and start putting some more up as i go.
Sparky, Where the fin ends up in the box depends on you. it is something you have to play with and find the sweet spot. When doing this, mark the fin box for reference.
Yeah, i'm looking forward to getting it dialed in when i finish the board! Meanwhile, been taking pictures on the project, so figure i'll post em here if anyone's interested.
-1st pic is the deck skinned halfway. had a hard time getting the crust off at the nose and tail with the planer. Ended up using the surform which worked better.
-2nd is the bottom at the tail, skinned and taken down to the right thickness
- 3rd is my modified planer- was making a huge mess until i put the shop vac on it! The highest setting on its only like an 1/8" so it takes a lot of passes to get any foam off, but was only about $60 @ Lowes.
Howzit tblank, That is how I used to do it but where ever I tried it I would scratch 1 side of the box so I knew where I had tried it, but when I found the sweet spot for the fin I would mark both sides of the box. Aloha,Kokua
Make sure when you foil your blank, you don’t go too thin where the box will be installed, and when you do your rails, you want to foil them, too…long blended tapers with no noticeable changes in thickness. Round, soft rails that are well foiled are simple and functional for what you are after. You don’t need edges, but you can add them through the tail if you want a more “performance” oriented LB. Hard and tucked, like a shortboard, but scaled up to a 9’6.
Keeping the bottom flat is fine. But it does not hurt to add some contours. It’s only for small/weak surf, so these things are not so critical. A bit of nose concave (a teardrop shape through the front third or less)… to flat… to rolled vee works well and is pretty easily done and work well for noseriding.
Great advice everyone, thanks again! Been getting ahead of myself, reading up on a lot of posts about shaping the rails and rail bands, super easy to spend hours here just reading all the topics.
Think i'm starting to get ahold of the railband concept, but still confused on one thing. So for a 50/50 or 60/40 rail i understand that the apex of the rail would be at 50% or 40% off the bottom of the board. My question: is the thickness of the rail ( 100%) being measured from the outside edge, or is it the stringer (center) thickness at that particuler spot?
Example- Say at the middle of the board, the stringer is 3" thick and the outer 90deg. edge (between the bottom and the crowned deck) is 2" thick. For a 50/50 rail does that put the apex at 1.5" (50% of stringer) or at 1" ( 50% of outside edge)?
You’re really looking at the rail radius when you consider where the apex is… not so much the thickness of the board, although they should both be foiled in a similar way. Foiling the rail is about rail volume. The location of the apex is one of the primary factors in determining the rail’s shape. There’s been some discussion about where the rail curve ends and where the deck curve begins, and it’s not so clear. (On the bottom, it’s easier.) So it’s difficult to give a measurement of “rail thickness,” which is going to related to both volume and shape, as you’ve noticed. But if you just look at the rail radius, I’d say where 80% of the rail curve is, that’s your “rail.” Then pinpoint the location of your apex within that curve.
Thanks nj_surfer! Sounds like I was trying to combine two different things into one.Probably try to read up a bit more on doing rail bands and such before I jump into it! In the meantime, I got the tail foiled, its about 3/4" thick at the end and about 1 1/4" @ 6". Also decided what the heck, and put a concave in the nose, about 1/8"- 3/16" at the deepest. its kinda rough sofar, I need to get up to Fiberglass Suply and get some foam sanding pads to feather it out more. Here's some pics-
Lookin’ good Sparky!
I would suggest that you run the concave a bit
further towards the rails as your nose band will
blend in better and not have so sharp a transition.
Also run it out into the tip of the nose. It will help
make the nose look thinner than it really is.
The reason I suggested setting the box at 7" for
this size is that it gives you more adjustment to
dial in your set-up. When you run as a 2 + 1
you should run a 8" wide
base with the SB 1 fins (3.5" base). I really like Larry’s
(Fiberglass Fins) foils on his longboard fins and they
really perform for most riders.
When you want to do a single, the pivot point won’t be
too far back.
No one has really mentioned this, but my 2 cents is that shape good for a 2+1, but may not work very well as a single. Two different animals in my opinion.
Thanks Surfteach! I was thinking that i would get the rails done first and then try to blend in the concave once i can see where the rail will curve into the bottom? Or maybe just mark out the rails first and do it before sanding them. I didn't really have any ideas yet on a center fin, so i'll definitely see if any of the shops here carry Larry's.
No one has really mentioned this, but my 2 cents is that shape good for a 2+1, but may not work very well as a single. Two different animals in my opinion.
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Good Point tsimpson! I'm planning on riding it mostly as a 2+1, just because thats what i'm most familier with. I'll probably try to experiment with it as a single though, and if the shape works good for that it will just be an added bonus!
Long center box; six inches frm the tail at the back of the box for a standard longboard that will be ridden as a single or a two plus one. Five or 51/2 inches for a longboard that will be ridden as a a progressive single fin with side bites. At least 1 1/4 or 1 1/8" thickness in the tail at the back of the center box(six inches from the tail). Sixteen or 16 1/2 will do for the side bites, although in steeper waves some guys move them up to seventeen. Put the double barrel concave in with a piece of PVC plastic pipe and a sheet of sandpaper. On either side of the stringer but inside of your side bite placement. The V will appear automatically when you put in the concaves. Refine the tail area with sandpaper and screen. It looks as though you have got off to a good start and the beginnings of the nose concave look good. You may want to take it a little further back into the front third of the blank. You don't want to have to hang ten every nose ride in order to trim from the nose. Make sure the concave is symetrical and refine it with sandpaper and screen using a full sheet and a foam pad. Leave yourself a fraction of an inch in the overall shape for finish sanding and screening. Make sure you take down the stringer top and bottom with a mini-plane before you finish the screening. Get the stringer down below the foam a little and then screen the foam down flush to the stringer. A proud or high stringer is the most common screw-up in a first shape.
Thanks for all the tips McDing! Was going to start the rails a few days ago, but decided i should sturdy up the shaping stands first. Filled the pvc uprights with concrete and added another hole so ill be able to raise it when glassing. Its now only slightly sturdier and way heavier, lol! Got a couple of passes done on the rails on the bottom, and probably will flip it over and start on the deck railbands next.
