Jim, I have just finished a board and had a bit of trouble trying to get the right angle for planing on the rails. I ended up flattening out the dome of the deck (if that makes sense) near the rails. I was trying to use very shallow cuts as you recommend in Master Shaper. Any tips for shaping rails or is it just practise makes perfect (or as close as you can get)? I found it harder to shape the deck anyway and adjusted the cut a bit deeper but tried to avoid that near the rails. A shaper had a look at the board and suggested just using a surform on the rails next time but I thought it would be good to try the planer again when I start the next board.
It will take a while to be able to “see” the rail you want and wind up with it. You can use the surform, probaly suggested by a shaper who uses it extensively, but the planer is the true test of true lines. As you start to get closer to the final result, stop and roll the board up on the rail and sight around it. You will be able to see both the top and bottom rail at the same time. This will give you a visual of how it is physically looking and from there you can decide where to make changes. I find new methods to make the job easier nearly daily and morph my shaping to accept these changes. I learned all of the basics of good shaping from craftsmen better than me, discarded the useless and added only what was going to improve my abilities. Look at the long term picture to improve your boards
I’ve watched the master shaping series too – with relish I might add. The one thing that stands out in my mind is how little material Jim takes off the rail when he makes his passes. It seems a very important part of the process of shaping the rails. You just cant take very much at a time or you loose the symmetry of the rail shape.
For me shaping the bottom and the deck to nearly the exact foil your looking toward has to process the rail work. It seems to me that the board should be ready for a little more than very minor touch of work when you ready to shape you rails. The board thickness and foil should be there before you start on them. I like to draw where the apex of the rail arch is going to be on the flat edge of the unshaped rail as a reference point before I start shaping the rails. Jim mentions rail bands constantly in the master shaper series. This is the key to good rails. The band (a narrow flat surface running the length of the of the board made by a continues pass) is the key to producing a flowing rail the joins the bottom and deck perfectly. What you use to make you rail bands it up to you. I have watched several pros work their rails to finish them out. Each one does it a little different but walking the board with a fine piece of sanding screen rolled over the rail is a integral part of finishing them out.
I finally got so see some of your work here in Hawaii at SG Plus in Waikiki. I was impressed both with your longboards and the retro looking 70’s swallow and a diamond tail I saw someone walking on the beach with.
I was glad I stopped there. Its actually a branch of Surf Garage sort of. They had some Channin retro shortboards and some Surf Techs too. Did’nt get the usual snob from the worker there like at some other Japanese owned establishments. Besides the Phillips boards, the Hank Byzak shaped Channin retro twins and single fins were sweet, with the trademark Channin quality glass jobs. Worth a look, even though the prices are a bit steep.
It was most likely Yas Kojima working the shop, supernice guys, they also are part of Plana Surf Shop in Osaka. The Japanese dealers are so humble, this last shipment of boards to Waikiki got fork lifted at some freight terminal and they never even bothered to bitch to me (everyone else immediately blames the way the boards were packed).
All of the longboards get resin pins, they love to be able to feel the bump
Stick with the planer. It’s the BEST tool for the job.
Even though it may be difficult to control you’ll build confidence and technique over the course of “banding the rails” on a just a few boards.
Try to visualize congruent lines from the stringer to the rail and/or the rail to the stringer and follow those lines with the planer. Adjust the angle and depth to achieve the stringer to rail arc or line that defines your deck and rail.
Approach the work with confidence and don’t worry about any “mistakes.” Just work your way through it. With a little experience you’ll be far ahead of where you would otherwise be by trying to be too conservative with your choice of tools.
I just heard(read on their website) that Damascus Productions has another video with Jim Phillips shaping short boards and some balsa work thrown in.Whats up with that Jim??? RB
I parked at this little lot across the street from the post office on Saratoga, five bucks for all day parking. I took my wife to brunch that morning, (Shorebird restaurant, on the beach, $10 breakfast buffet, pretty decent food too) then surfed Three’s for desert. I remembered about you mentioning the shop, so I took a look. They did’nt have any Rainbows or Pavel’s in, just some T shirts at the moment. I think the guys name was Yasu, cool guy. He did show me some of the boards Jim mentioned got damaged in shipment. One was a Phillips Yokohama model…sweeet.
Foamdust, I figured the name Yokohama Model was a good one, the stringer combo is what Phil and Diff had in their boards in that famous photo that Diff got cropped out of at Yokohama.
Did you like the stringers, I cut and glued those blanks myself?
Thanks for that Jim. I will put the board on edge like you said and keep practising with the planer. I will closely study the DVD again before I start. I think I’ve got to get used to working on the curved surface of the deck. I found skinning the bottom and even shaping in the concaves easier than skinning the deck and working on the rail bands. By the way, are you going to produce a shaping DVD for making a shortboard? I’m sure there are lots of us who sould buy it?
I basically did everything you said. I made reference points on the unshaped rail edge and for the rail bands and worked on them last, after foiling and shaping in the bottom. I also finished with fine sanding screen. The board turned out quite well really. It just has this flat spot near the rails (near the wide point is where it is most obvious) where I obviously did not have the planer on edge enough. i found it hard to put the planer on edge and get a cut. Anyway, I’ll finish sanding the board tomorrow and aim to start another next week. I’ll take it nice and slow again and really concetrate on trying to get a good cut on the deck and rails.
There you go. You will see from my reply to Jim that I didn’t read through everyone else’s replies before asking the question about shortboard shaping. It’s obviously time to visit the Damascus Website again.
The stringers were ultra cool…I had Yasu put couple of your boards on the stands so I could get a feel of your rails…mmmm. The retro 70s shortboards were nice. While having brunch a Japanese tourist walked past us on the beach sporting a cool looking diamond tail, I didnt recognize the logo until I went to SG and saw the swallowtail on the rack there. Seeing the boards got me inspired to finally cut out a 7 ft roundpin out of a blank I’ve had sitting in my room for months. Thanks…
Foamdust, I’ll be in Hawaii this late winter and shape some boards for Yas at Jack Reeves shop, his glassing is way more expensive, but the diffrence will make up for freight and DAMAGE. Lets plan ahead for a Hawaii Swaylock’s