SHAPING video to analyze

General Discussion
1

…I like the Japs culture, several years ago I almost flew there to spend few months, however I had exams for a degree that I had studying so never happened…and now I do not have a clear opportunity to go there again. Anyway

Checking, I found this clip and decided to watch it complete to see what s going on with a “pro” shaper with a retailer shop there.

I decided to put this up here for analysis, interchange techniques, etc, not to bashing a “colleague” or to establish that my technique is the best or the right way to go. You know, this is a board building forum.

However, those guys are selling boards with a shop, they are not couple ones that are trying to make a board or learning the way, etc; they are selling boards!

Lots of dogs I guess…I m understanding, besides the huge taste for Americana that they have, why they really love boards made in California.

 

—to prevent the misery to watch all the 25 minutes in a row I enslaved myself and take some notes for you:

 

-between minutes 1 - 2:30 cleaning and rasping crust

-4:30-5:30 temerarious and rash use of planer. I can see the wobble and bumps from here!

-8 - 9 more temerarious new techniques! with a grinder!

-12:40-13:15 shaping rail bands (they do not show too much here…imagine) with surform…in search of clean lines…

-15- 16 making the double concave (at final stage)

-16:30-17 the explanation

-20:30 fresh shapes and boards rest on more than 2 or 3 points.

-at 22 they really love their grinders

-22:35  new technique!¿?; may be a cool one?

-23 a repair performed only with filler, normally is what I see in many countries with the repair wanna be s.

-23:40 filling orders…

 

and all with an awful light girl pop music

 

<iframe width=“560” height=“315” src=“http://www.youtube.com/embed/8UeNzj9mPqU” frameborder=“0” allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

—I tried but do not know why the clip do not appears here…may be Huck can put it

 

 

2

He did eventually get something that looks like it will ride OK but maybe we should pass the hat, buy a copy of Damascus Productions shaping video (featuring planer wiz Jim Phillips) and send it to the guy?

I watch the Damascus video and it makes me want to tear my hair out.  I don't know of ANYONE who can get shapes so finalized with only a planer.  The video shows the steps from start to finish with no wasted motion. 

That photo of Jim in this thread shows a nearly finished blank - all done with planer. 

Just plain NUTS!

 

3

Hi Reverb

I would prefer a shaping video from YOU

Why discuss something horrible in the 1st place?

W

4

Horrible??  Maybe not as good as you, but he's adequate.Got the job done.  Alot of little things I would do differantly, but he got from point A to B.  Don't care for his planer and I can't see turning rails with a Surform, but he made good use of the grinder and was able to get his desired rocker out of a blank that obviously wasn't intended for the board he shaped.  Used "Dragon Skin" without terminal damage. Fair skill set.  Like Bob said:  "Don't critisize what you don't understand.   

5

And Reverb;  "Japs" is a derogatory racist term that even we North Americans don't use anymore.  But thanks for the video.  Worth watching.

6

I didn’t find him to be a master of his tools.  Technique was too wobbly.  Used his long sanding block in the short direction rather than running it  length wise.

And with the uneven racks he had, how would you ever get a shape with no twists.  You need a level platform for the blank to rest on so you can measure to level.  Otherwise you have no reference point.  Also using the rocker stick after the rocker is finished.  I use the stick while shaping as a guide to the finished design.

7

wobbly, japs, grinders, no bashing, you guys suck, bad music.

 

Besides a couple friends and myself, a guy who surfs and uses a planer here is so rare that I give this small shop a double thumbs up for at least trying to become craftsmen and not just buying from China like everyone else. Your way da bes but at least this guy had fun and smiled without bashing your shaping.

 

That’s what really went down.

8

Funny!  He put a level from rail to rail (remember) and the concave(which was a pretty deep single to double with V) looked good.  You can't do that on racks that aren't somewhat level.  Maybe you also didn't see the lines on the wall??   Between that and the rocker stick I would say he was trying harder than most.  I know of at least a couple of Masters that sand rail to rail with their block when finishing. It's foam not wood.  Lots of guys that went on to be world class shapers were never woodworkers, carpenters or general contractors.  There seems to be a consensus here on Sways among some that if you haven't framed houses or built furniture;  You just can't shape a piece of foam. 

9

McDing,

Yes I saw what he did with the level. and the lines onthe wall.  Now let’s think about it.  Say his shaping stand is 1/4" out of level.  Did you notice the stands covered in puffed up foam?  Now when you level the top of the blank, but the rack is 1/4" out of level, what do you get?  A board that is thicker by 1/4" on one side.  Some one just starting out might appreciate my tip on starting with level shaping stands, and using a level as a level and not just a straight edge when checking your work.  Also the level will only read true when placed on the blank exactly perpindicular to the stringer.  Dis you notice in the video that he wasn’t holding it square to the stringer, but more just sliding it across the board?

As far as the sanding, it isn’t going rail to rail that I was talking about.  If you have a 12" long sanding block but use it in the 3" wide direction, its a lot harder to sand to smooth without dips and bumps.  Move the sanding block lengthwise, and you end up with a smoother shape.

Lastly, it isn’t my point to bash on some guy making a shaping video.  But if a sways reader looks at the video, and I can drop a little hint as to a better tool use, I might help the sways reader on their own work.  

Being a carpenter or board shaper is no difference at all.  Just about every technique on a tool is universal and pertains equally to every trade.

10

…I put the clip, like mentioned before, to discuss several ways to do the same stuff. After I watched I d surprised about the way he uses the tools and the finish shape. Yes, Mcding, I think the same about the plug choice and the final shape; however, very bad techniques that do not lead to a clean shape in the easy way; for example the way to rasp here and there; the way he try to clean the outline. The way the other guy is killing the tip of the board, etc

It s not criticize for nothing, but he is selling his boards and have a shop. so is not a backyarder and he put his video on internet to show his work and the way he does it.

 

I did not see the masters doing this way, what I see from the great shapers is a clean use of tools and follow a protocol, so I have been trying to go that way, and is the easy way to obtain a clean product.

11

Watch it again.  He wasn't just sliding the level.  In fact you can see the bubble.  Guys used foam rubber, upholstery pad and carpet pad for years.  It's just been hip to use EVA glued on for the last ten years or so.  There's no way you can eyeball the guys shaping stand and say it's out of level.   I do know the Japanese scrutinize a surfboard like nobody else on the Planet.  Both shape and finish.  I've seen 'em rejected and shipped back.  One little thing out of sinc and they turn down the box and send 'em back.  So if he has a shop in Chiba and sells boards;  He's one up on you and me.

12

Everysurfer, the first thing I look for is the ability to use tools accurately and correctly, if you are not in control of your tool, you are not in control of your work.

Most of th shaping videos make me want to puke, more of the blind leading the blind astray

13

Thanks Jim

14

 

 Everysurfer states:  “Being a carpenter or board shaper is no difference at all.  Just about every technique on a tool is universal and pertains equally to every trade.”

 

 

 

I once again absolutely disagree with him.

15

Now I’ve looked at 7:32 of it, I had bile in my throat and couldn’t go any further without full on puking.

 

A raw blank, hasn’t even knocked down the gluey stringer first, goes right on to skinning bottom and jumps from left to right, but can only walk one way with the “tool”.

Then starts surforming and sanding the bottom, WTF is he doing ?

Jumps to the deck, takes off 2 passes, so he can down to the real weak part of the blank, doesn’t look for any twist, bumps or dips and I can see the F’d up right hand side of the nose before he starts.

The he “cuts” out the outline WTF, why bother, and then flips the blank on edge, but doesn’t even get close to the line, then it is sand up to the line, when I do and outline clean up, I split the pencil line with the planer and it is flat on the racks.

Mars needs woamen, Japan needs shapers

He has an affair with his rocker jig

I could NOT go any farther. He needs to go back to stocking shelves at the shop and go, that is NOT pro shaping by any means

 

 

 

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16

Reminds me of me before Jim Phillips took me under his wing and spent a whole summer teaching me to shape. I am of the opinion that anyone who shapes a board by hand is OK in my book. The guy has soul and at least he is trying.

 

17

…man, please jump and see couple of minutes more: between 8-9 and between 15 -16.

Thanks

18

Man that was disturbing.

I dont shape but I watch a lot of guys. And I wanted to jump through my screen at several points.

19

8 to 9 minutes he took down the stringer with a 4 1/2" grinder with a sanding disk, then took down about an inch of foam using a small sure form sideways.  I thought that was what a planer was for.

15 to 16 minutes, he went back and forth between sure form and sand block to put in his double concave.  Short choppy strokes leaves a choppy surface.  Smooth strokes leaves a smooth surface.

Oh and he’s left handed too.

20

wow… did he wrestle that blank from the jaws of an aligator or something?