Tell me how you start your shape…
Do you shape the rocker and contour first ,then template ?
Do just skin and line up the templates,just the bottom or both sides ?
Or just pencil out the lines on the skin ?
Your reasons for this is ?
Does it make a big difference ?
Herb
Herb, I usually lay out my templates, trace them onto the blank, cut out the outline, then skin the blank. I had rocker after that. Contours I do last.
But I’m the last person you should ask. I’m more interested in knowing what the more established guys do.
I think changing my rocker after creating the outline might cause some irregularity between the template and the finished board. It might only be less than an inch, but that matters right? Thinking in 3D hurts my brain, no wonder I’m a writer.
Wasssap?!! Here we go Herb. You asked for it.
Pu/Pe shape:
Foil
Thickness & Rocker
Minor rocker change
Template (cut with rusty old pruning saw)
Reason - Old school habit of 18 years I can’t seem to break
EPS:
Template (jigsaw baby!)
Thickness
Rocker
Reason - That stuff is too floppy and crumbles on me if I use old ways. The best is that the thickness can be measured without calipers. Muahahahahahha!
And that board you saw was sealed without the use of distilled h2o. It’s yellow enough to spit out butter.
Oooooh neat topic!
Mark the template on the unskinned blank to see how it fits/looks.
Skin top and bottom.
Square up the bottom to take out any twists, blobs or whatnot. Nice flat reference points.
Adjust the bottom for rough thickness.
Then I rough in the rocker along the stringer and then square up the bottom again. I should be within a quarter inch on the thickness.
Now comes the outline. On the bottom. Saber saw with a long blade. That’s why I spend a lot of time getting the bottom flat, flat, flat.
In the same time I’m doing all of this Keith M., next to me, has skinned, rockered, outlined, and banded one board and lammed two others…
"Do just skin and line up the templates,just the bottom or both sides ? "
oh , damn …
you mean I’m meant to take that hard crusty stuff OFF ??
ben
EPS;
create outline and rail templates
hotwire blank
cut and glue up stinger
cut template with a hand saw
square rails
clean top and bottom of any hotwire irregularities if needed (4 hands are better than 2 at hotwiring)
skin to thickness if needed
shape rails
shape botton contours
spackle seal with distilled h2o
glass
surf
Yeah, I’m the fastest EVER and don’t you forget it Lee. Speaking of shirts and skins, I have a red shirt I wear when I shape & glass, that makes me even faster. I’m going to get in the Guiness Book of World Records soon, better believe it, uh huh.
Speed is relative young whippersnapper; just ask Mr. Bloke. Are you fast or am I reeeeaaaallllyyyy ssssslllllooooowwww.
plane to thickness, then template. i find i get a truer shape with less hassle this way. rather than templating it first and then doing something stupid and taking a chunk out of the rail when planing it down. i know, i know…not an issue if i just pay attention…but my mind has a tendency to wander. hey…let’s go ride bikes!
Keith, I’m not going to believe that until you post GPS data of you running back & forth with your planer. Then we’ll see…
Much like Schroeder, I do it different for EPS & urethane.
EPS:
Hotwire thickness (and rocker if just glassing. Hotwire thickness only if bagging on skins, because I’ll add rocker then if I do it that way - more blanks from a billet if they’re cut out flat.)
Smooth wire marks off bottom with 2’ wide sanding block
Template (jigsaw also)
Foil bottom
Bottom rail band
Foil top
Deck dome & top rail bands
Bottom contours last with blocks & pads
Urethane:
Skin bottom
Square & true
If adding rocker, do it now (if subtracting, do it later)
Template
Cut with handsaw
True up template with planer
Further skin to desired thickness & add bottom contours
(optional - skin deck now and subtract rocker if doing that)
Bottom rail band
Skin deck (if rocker was good)
deck dome & rail bands
I’ll bite… its late and I’ve had some scotch…
In the factory we:
skinned blanks,
then skinned blanks,
then skinnnnnnnnned blanks,
then skinnnnnnnnnnnnned blanks,
and marked the high spots with blue chalk
for the real shapers to notice…
In the garage I:
draw outlines
look at the shape
look at the shape som’ mo’
look at the shape som’ mo’ mo"
cut the outline with a lot of slop,
dress the bottom to level
dress the deck to match,
check the outline and dress the outline,
put the board aside as I’ve had too many beers by then…
come back in a few days when I’m sober and finish that puppy off.
In the garage with EPS I:
look at the blank…
cut off a corner and check the fusion…
call Greg and ask him about what he thinks of 1lb density…
draw the outline…
cut off another corner and check the fusion…
call Greg and ask him what he thinks about 2lb density…
cut out the outline with a lot of slop…
restring my guitar since I’m out of nichorme…
call Greg and ask about additive F…
dress the bottom with my planer and cry at the pukas…
dress up the deck and cry at the pukas…
call Greg and ask him about microballoons…
break up the blank and go back to US Foam…
BKB
PS: Sorry Greg, I just couldn’t do it!!!
I pencil the outline on the skin…usually. For no particular reason. IMHO, it makes no difference one way or the other…as I don’t think there is a way I haven’t started a shaping routine. It’s all just what you get in the habit of doing.
But Herb, you must know this already, aren’t you on the list? .
Herb,
I make 2 rocker/thickness templates, and one outline template
Hotwire with the rocker templates
Hotwire lengthwise and glue in stringer(s)
Flatten any glue-up and hotwire errors with 28" sanding block and block plane
Cut outline out with router, long bit and outline template (square edge built in)
Mark the jillion points I use for rail banding
tape off rail bands and sand to tape, repeat until all rail bands done
Finish sand with 36, 60, 120 grit and different sanding blocks (softer as I go)
Seal, glass, hotcoat, artwork, gloss and done.
I still cannot laminate clear enough to show the brilliance of some of the colors I do graphics with, so I do art on top of the hotcoat
JSS
For the majority of close tolerance poly-u shortys I have done so far I usually lay the template straight on the crust, cut temp., true up rails, skin, adjust rocker, adjust thickness, cut swallow (if necessary), turn bottom rails, flip for foil, rail bands, blending, and finish sanding.
For traditional poly-u fish, retros, etc. (thick blanks) I have done so far I skin the crust, adjust rocker, adjust thickness, cut temp. (leave true deep fish tail for later after flip and foil), true up rails, turn bottom rails, flip for foil, rail bands, blending, and finish sanding.
For EPS if it’s hot-wired to the specific rocker dims one is looking for it’s good to go. Follow the rocker temp and cut temp., skin hot-wire crust, adjust thickness, true rails, turn bottom rails, flip for foil, rail bands, blending and finish sanding.
With close tolerance blanks I feel as though I am already close enough to my desired final rocker dims and board thickness that the skinning the blank first has negligible advantages v. skinning a thick blank first in which I shape in rough rocker dims and thickness adjustments which I feel gives a better platform to template for a more true design. With EPS if your rocker was dialed in during the hot-wire phase, follow the rocker and adjust the thickness accordingly.
The old adage “There’s more than one way to skin a cat” defiantly applies here as with most areas of board building.
Regards, Tony.
Same as most of the EPS people I:
Make rocker/foil and outline templates
Hotwire 2 halves of the board (I get 12"x48"x96" blocks of 2#)
Glue in a stringer
Get rid of hotwire skin and/or any irregularities with a 24" sanding block and block plane
Mark off the outline with a soft pencil (artists 8B sketching pencil works well)
Cut out with a jigsaw
True up the edges
Put in the bottom contours
Mark out the bottom rail bevel and cut it with a sanding block (all bevel lines taped off> sand to tape)
Mark out the various deck bevels and cut with sanding blocks
Top rail bevel
Blend all of the bevels and the rails with screen and sanding paper
Seal
Paint (if applicable)
Glass
Hotcoat
Sand
Gloss
Done
No particular reasons for any of the steps, I am learning it all and adjusting steps technique as I go.
I have tried an adjustable bevel hotwire cutter, but need to remake it. Doesn’t hold the angle well enough.
And I am starting to practice with a planer. Want to see how it’s like and if I can get it dialed in.
At some point when I have some cash I would like to get some PU blanks up here and give it a try that way.
GPS readings are shite. Nothing to raise a finger about, but the reading from the golf cart at work showed us roaring downhill at 120mph.
Speaking of other threads, thanks Benny for the hot tip on gluing balsa rails with 3m spray glue in another thread. Worked a treat.
What grit are you guys using to powersand EPS? I’m using 60 grit slowly on a very soft pad. Softer than what I’d use normally for poly. If I hit it right with the powersander, it looks like the board came out of a mold. Go too fast and it seems to start melting.
Mark the template on the unskinned blank to see how it fits/looks.
I reckon this is the critical first step - getting outline and rocker to interact to create the perfect rail line.
Skin bottom
Adjust bottom contours to about 80%
Skin top
Cut temolet outline
Adjust top contours to about 80%
Put in rail bands
Contour rails
Finish sand
Glass
Live with all of the lumps and bumps
Enjoy the ride
Have a lot of fun
ATF/FBI/CIA/NSA…CHECK EM OUT …if you don’t believe me…DEA gave up on me …nothing like a sober person to throw them off …
oh yeah…I know…I like being on the list ,it makes me laugh.Herb
Ooooooooow,
Someone that thinks…a who-wa to you! Herb