Shit Happens: The Mystery of Paint Bleed

…I still dont know how you manage painting with artist acrylic paints onto hot coat and then do a gloss

dead shaper

in a repair (on the hot coat or on the resin, whatever) for not bleeding

you need to go with automotive polyester tints

for the boards I prefer tempera over acrylics (however in the paints factory, the mixer told me that acrylics are better to avoid bleeding cause is only pigment and nuthin more. -I buy non diluted acr and temp-)

In the past, I had problems with the red, the green, and the blue

all goes to yellow bleeding

then I bought a brand called best temp

and no more yellow bleeding with the red

and its a very good intense color, a blood red

very nice

so I changed for temperas

but know I have some problems with mixed colors like light blue (when lam turned to green…) and with kakhi or beiges that turn to different shades.

Hi Kokua, I thin with pure Future only, not water. I spray anywhere between 25-50 psi depending on the pattern I want and the way the thinned paint mixes out. I use a single-action Badger 350 for most of my bulk painting at higher pressures. For more detailed stuff I use a double-action at 25 psi max. In another thread I mentioned that I used auto windshield washer fluid for cleaning. I got this idea after discovering that the window fluid was the same as several acrylic thinners - alcohol, water, ammonia. I’ve used acrylic thinners and various window cleaners for thinning, but I found that Future gives the paint more “body” (for lack of a better word), and drying time is better with less runs. Adding tempra will give the same body if you thin with higher viscosity thinners. The main reason I use the single-action is that it is more forgiving at higher pressures using thicker mixes. On that problem board I mentioned that was light gray, I did my own mix of black and white and it still bled but far less (probably was the white). The actual color was putty, so some yellow or brown had to be added. The way I wound up fixing this was I had an auto paint shop match the color in a urethane and we just urethane clearcoated over that. I spent 3 times more in time and materials than I got for the job, besides being driven nuts while doing it. Thanks DeadShaper for bring up this thread, this problem had bothered me for a long time.

Howzit Pete, When using Future to thin the paint does it become foamy after mixing. That's the 1 problem with using just acrylic thiiner with out adding water. Aloha,Kokua

For what it’s worth, here’s a link to Rohm and Haas’s info library on paint ingredients an terminology. Rohm and Haas are the makers Rhoplex which is the binder that Nova uses in their paint. Dig around the site theres some good info there.

http://www.paintquality.com/library/index.html

Hi Kokua,

The Future doesn’t get real foamy, but there are of course some bubbles. These don’t give me any problems since I always use a bottle and the siphon tube picks up from the bottom of it and the buuble are at the top. I used to use a little drink mixer, which is a miniature stick blender meant for mixing single drinks in a small glass, but that made too many bubbles. I just use a med/large artist brush now. It has to be a good one that won’t shed hairs, or this will really give you problems. I must have tried every acrylic thinner there is, including all of those that are available at hobby shops (Tamiya, Pactra, Testors, etc) and these all were equal or worst than window cleaner. There is some stuff from a company called “Micro Scale” which is a clear acrylic (matte or gloss) and works as good as Future for thinning. At $3 for 4 oz, it doesn’t compare with 27 oz of Future for $7. Future is almost pure clear acrylic, so it’s really not a thinner. The viscosity is high enough to spray easy by itself, but tube paints will thicken it and you’ll have to add more than with bottled paint. It’s really not durable enough as a clear coat, and if sprayed too heavy it will give a frosted look. You have to keep your paint bottles covered because it skins easily after mixing.

Here’s a good link to a description of the properties of Azo and Hansa Pigments. Scroll down to the section on Arylide/Azo/Hansa Etc.

http://www.paintmaking.com/yellow.htm

The site is also good resource on colorants in general.

I have been to busy to log in lately and we are still going about paint bleed!!

Water colours are a pain because the take so long to dry and get the colour depth right.

I think the secret is a very light dusty paint volume, 1st cover coat colour and not too much water, just enough to allow the paint to flow when it has been sprayed. Dry this off using air and not a heat gun, heat affects the tape glue and foam etc. Next spray the same again, this should have sealed the tape edge. The next is to lay up higher volume paint and SLOWLEY build up the desired colour depth. Use air to flash dry every two coats, and finish off with a clear coar, this sets the fades and dark colours and, mixed colours.

Carpet dryers use fans blowing non heated air which evaporates the water out of the carpet/ paint in our case.

Boardbunps

Thanks for he thoughts, Bumps…however, Atomizer has the insight (and experience) to know that depending upon what type of yellow is added to an orange, or green or white or whatever color the bleeding yellow is being added to, that therein lies the problem. Bleeding uner the tape off is easily remedied with painting some Future along the tapeline and letting it dry before painting or pinlining.

The jury is pretty decided that if you use Nova paints you won’t have a problem. This is based on the experience of using those paints. When you head off to Home Depot, or Ace or some other supplier, you do no have a guarantee of what yellow they will be adding. Perhaps it is possible to ask at the time of mixing, but I don’t think I’d place great confidence in what an $11/hr employee of Home Depot or your local home improvement center actually knows.

If you can find a barier coat that locks in the color w/out it bleeding then you are ahead of the game. It could be something simple right off the shelf, or something crative like a mix of water and white glue for all we know. Proof is in the trying. Otherwise how would we even know how Future makes life a helluva lot easier for painting and pinning crisp lines.

…sharing information can be a beautiful (and cost effective) thing.

Howzit DeadShaper, Nova is by far an excellant paint and it has an additive that other acrylic paints don’t. This is evident by just the fact that drips spilled are flexible after it dries. Other acrylic paints are hard and crusty when dry. If you go to the nova web site it talks about the additive in the paint.Aloha,Kokua

Howzit Pete, I think the reason my paint thinned with the acrylic thinner gets so foamy due to the fact that I shake the s#*t out of them when mixing and even using a syphon spray gun doesn’t work. What I do now is after shaking the paint I wait a couple of hours then stir it so no more bubbles. Aloha,Kokua

I was reading through the archives and found this thread that leaves me confused and scared.

I just bought a quart of yellow interior flat latex from Home Depot to spray my EPS blank. The deck only. My bottom will be laminated with carbon.

Is it suicide to apply this paint to my EPS deck?

I can do a test on scrap, but can I trust this test?

I see this post was from March…a test should have spelled it out. Did you do the test and then the board…how did things turn out for you.

I wasn’t trying to scare anyone…the problem does exist when you use suppliers that can’t tell you what exactly is in their paint. Atomized knows a ton and so does Kokua amongst others. But Home Depot and Ace can be luck of the draw. If you use Nova, you get NO problems but you pay more.

Don’t tell anyone about NOVO! That my favorite paint. Plus you need to buy it at a professional supply house were you can obtain solid advice. I love to hear about guy’s and their Home Cheapo advice regarding building boards. It adds an element of humor to Swaylocks. Hack, Hack, Hack see Jack Hack!

I’m going to throw in my best guess and say spackle twice and then airbrush. Spackling twice certainly makes for a smoother surface than spackling once. From there I am lost as I don’t airbrush (yet).

Is there a guide or a technical Bulletin on line or somewhere else that would give a run down on Paints and applications on foam and being glassed? Or is this a trial and error type situation?

Thanks

Seems Like airbrush art has come along way since I as working in the Surfboard industry back in the 1970’s and early 80’s.

Back then it was just Liquitex paints diluted with water.

Thanks and this has been a most informative discussion

Is there a guide or a technical Bulletin on line or somewhere else that would give a run down on Paints and applications on foam and being glassed? Or is this a trial and error type situation?

Thanks

Seems Like airbrush art has come along way since I as working in the Surfboard industry back in the 1970’s and early 80’s.

Back then it was just Liquitex paints diluted with water.

Thanks and this has been a most informative discussion

Wonder why this posted 3 times? and still not one reply.

Howzit surfding,Actually you can go to the Nova website and ask for a color chart and price list and order directly from them. I believe they are in the City of Commerce in Los Angeles. Aloha,Kokua

Hey Kokua! Stoked to hear from you. How are you doing?

Thanks for the NOVO info. I love the stuff!

SD