I asked this question before, but got no signifigant responses. I’m interested in finding the ideal characteristics in a shortboard for peaky,mushy surf, often under chest high. Wider, flatter? Maybe a smaller fish with a twin setup, flatter rocker? What about bottom features; flatter=faster always? I love longboarding, but only when it’s clean. Any help or suggestions concerning what to look for in a shortboard for these conditions is greatly appreciated. Thanks-ryan p.s. great to see Dale Solomonson posting here.
Check out my Bro’s board in the “boards” folder,under experimental the second board…green fish.Herb.
I asked this question before, but got no signifigant responses. I’m > interested in finding the ideal characteristics in a shortboard for > peaky,mushy surf, often under chest high. Wider, flatter? Maybe a smaller > fish with a twin setup, flatter rocker? What about bottom features; > flatter=faster always? I love longboarding, but only when it’s clean. Any > help or suggestions concerning what to look for in a shortboard for these > conditions is greatly appreciated. Thanks-ryan>>> p.s. great to see Dale Solomonson posting here. Ry, Hope things are going well. Yes wider and flatter are the go. If you go wide dont be afraid of a little V in the fin area. Bigger side fins, smaller back fin. aloha! Tom
In mushy peaks you at least have some hope of attaining the necessary initial planing speed for a hard bottom turn that sets up the rest of the wave. Hmmm… something with a fuller planshape in both nose and tail to help add some straightness to the mid-section rail line, maybe a wide swallow tail for holding power and drive, thinner with just a little smooth, natural rocker, forgiving, soft,low rails with the tucked-edge thing to pump against, two shallow keel fins for that long-line drive and perhaps incorporating subtle concave areas throughout the length to trim and drive off and for low-end lift without having to add lots of foam for bouyancy… it depends on your surfing ability and style, too. For an excellent reference point, investigate the original Lis “Fish,” hard to beat in weaker, flatter waves and they could definitely rip the clean, bigger, gnarly stuff. Not just for kneeboarders, either. Within limits, in small, mushy peaks (as long as its not too choppy), it isnt unreasonable to expect that a small surfcraft can successfully be made to have much of the same drive, trim and glide of longer boards and still retain the sensitivity, quickness and speed of shorter boards. For fun, you can even add weight to increase a shortboards inertia through turns, sections and chop. In addition, riding on ones knees and laying down can add to surfing`s sensory input, efficiently spreading out overall weight and improving general balance, opening up a whole new range of possibilities in weak as well as powerful waves.
i just shaped a board for such conditions from the 6’0 R blank, its 6’0 with a 13.5" nose, 20" wide point at center, and 15" tail. 2.5" thick. baby swallow, bottom is flat into subtle double concaves between the fins which fades into slight v off the back fin. soft forward rails, modern foil. i ordered the blank with +1/2" N last 6" and +1/4 T last 6". rocker measures 4 1/2" at nose and 2 1/4" at tail. just took it to the glasser, can’t wait to ride it. i’ll try to post a pic.
20" wide fish with the tail tips 10" apart, mid towards boxy rail(arguable but it works for me in mushy reef/non steep smaller surf). You will actually be turning a lot with the fins so get a fair amount of surface area on the fin. You can go straight out Lis Fish with Gephart fins if the guy is still alive. I wouldn’t put to much rocker but I would go a little longer than the original small fishes, but then put a little more rocker. Also, to vary from the original fish, set the fins a little closer to the outside and don’t set them quite parrallel to the stringer–go a few inches out from the nose. You don’t want the board to track too much so don’t put them parrallel. If you go for a shortboard style, go about 6’4", 19 1/2 and 3 inches behind center, 12-13 inch nose and 13 to 15 inch tail, mid-high rail again. Luck. PS. Glad to see dale’s posts too.
I asked this question before, but got no signifigant responses. I’m > interested in finding the ideal characteristics in a shortboard for > peaky,mushy surf, often under chest high. Wider, flatter? Maybe a smaller > fish with a twin setup, flatter rocker? What about bottom features; > flatter=faster always? I love longboarding, but only when it’s clean. Any > help or suggestions concerning what to look for in a shortboard for these > conditions is greatly appreciated. Thanks-ryan>>> p.s. great to see Dale Solomonson posting here. Hey, Thank you guy’s so much for the input. Herb, Tom, Dale, Bruce, Steve, and anyone else who may help. This helps me more than you know! Please keep all the good advice coming and know that what you are doing is appreciated by all those you help and inspire. Tom, I’m doing pretty good man. Though I broke my collarbone 5 weeks ago so have’nt been surfing or shaping for awhile. The upside is it’s given me time to focus on design and try to refine my thought process. Hope everything is good on your end. Take care- ryan
Ryan, After numerous serious injuries throughout my life (the latest being 9 screws and a long steel plate in my ankle/lower leg) from simply having WAY too much fun, I can say with confidence that being out of action for a while can be viewed as a very positive experience, if you choose to deal with it that way… injuries can be seen as an opportunity to reflect, dream, plan and get focused for the day when you know you`re finally well again… and a fantastic time to reward yourself by trying out that new shortboard made for mushy surf!
Dale, Any Skil 100’s in you neck of the woods? Which planer do you use?
Dale,>>> Any Skil 100’s in you neck of the woods? Which planer do you use? Steve, No,(I live at the beach) and I have never even owned a Skil 100… I would suppose that most of my old tools would be classifed as strictly, “non-production”, are now almost all gone (but, hopefully not forever), and due to a number of factors, I am no longer shaping in any traditional sense of the word. As for what I may contribute to this forum (perhaps I have been out of place), I
m only able to speak with any measure of accuracy about that which Ive made, experienced, witnessed, or might suggest as an “intelligent” theory. Having said this, I am very fortunate to be able to draw upon many years of productive, in-depth participation with more than one of surfing`s disciplines, although never (by choice) at a high-volume, market/consumer-driven level. I guess you could say that I have always taken the longer, bumpier road to satisfy my curiousity. Thanks for asking!
Steve,>>> No,(I live at the beach) and I have never even owned a Skil 100… I would > suppose that most of my old tools would be classifed as strictly, > “non-production”, are now almost all gone (but, hopefully not > forever), and due to a number of factors, I am no longer shaping in any > traditional sense of the word. As for what I may contribute to this forum > (perhaps I have been out of place), I
m only able to speak with any > measure of accuracy about that which Ive made, experienced, witnessed, or > might suggest as an “intelligent” theory.>>> Having said this, I am very fortunate to be able to draw upon many years > of productive, in-depth participation with more than one of surfing`s > disciplines, although never (by choice) at a high-volume, > market/consumer-driven level. I guess you could say that I have always > taken the longer, bumpier road to satisfy my curiousity. Thanks for > asking! Hey Dale. Yes, even though I am young and inexperienced, I can still see how my injury is not neccesarily a bad thing. It has given me time to focus on my surfing (and my life), and give me the chance to make changes for the better. About that board for mushy surf. Unfortunately, I am soon leaving the powerful reef waves of northern California for the often weak, mushy and inconsistent surf of the great lakes. Most people laugh at the mention of lake surf, but after surfing there and throughout California, in Baja, Oregon, and Cape Hatteras, I can say that it is not nearly as bad as people think. It does not matter what people think anyways. Hence, I am looking for the optimum characteristics for that type of surf. I also wanted to say that you have not been out of place here by any means. I think I speak for others when I say your ideas, and what you have given to the art of wave riding is very well respected. Please keep it coming. Lastly, I wanted to talk to you about getting a mat (if your still making them). You could email me at if you’d like, or leave your email here. I spoke with you a bit before concerning this, and would like to get some more info. Thanks again for the help. Take care- ryan
Ryan, Thats a fascinating reason to be making a new surfboard for mushy waves! Yes, Im still making Neumatic surfmats, and interestingly, Im currently designing/making a custom surfmat for a guy (an older, ex-Seal Beach surfer) who now lives on the Great Lakes! Ive always been curious about that area (Ive heard some stories) and after investigating a little, talking to a few others who live there and checking out their many beautiful surfing/wave photographs posted on the web, I was really surprised! I learned that its unfair to judge the Great Lakes waves and surfers on the basis of what many of us take for granted nearly every day… and just as it would be incorrect to compare Californias surfing conditions with somewhere like the islands in the South Seas, it is entirely accurate to say the Great Lakes surfers share with us the same passion to seek and ride good waves, share friendly, uncrowded line-ups, explore and create new surfcraft design, enjoy offshore winds and good weather, clean water and travel to discover new spots, to experience these same things, all over again. Having surfed for many years in British Columbia, I can honestly say that there can be a powerful and surreal, magicical quality about surf spots that have good waves breaking where they simply dont seem to belong: along inland waterways and rivermouths with trees growing almost to the water`s edge, or farms and pastures alongside enticing freshwater pointbreaks and sandy beaches. So, I got some strange, familiar feelings when I began to study the surfing information and photos from the Great Lakes. You just might enjoy it, Ryan!>>> Hey Dale. Yes, even though I am young and inexperienced, I can still see > how my injury is not neccesarily a bad thing. It has given me time to > focus on my surfing (and my life), and give me the chance to make changes > for the better. About that board for mushy surf. Unfortunately, I am soon > leaving the powerful reef waves of northern California for the often weak, > mushy and inconsistent surf of the great lakes. Most people laugh at the > mention of lake surf, but after surfing there and throughout California, > in Baja, Oregon, and Cape Hatteras, I can say that it is not nearly as bad > as people think. It does not matter what people think anyways. Hence, I am > looking for the optimum characteristics for that type of surf. I also > wanted to say that you have not been out of place here by any means. I > think I speak for others when I say your ideas, and what you have given to > the art of wave riding is very well respected. Please keep it coming. > Lastly, I wanted to talk to you about getting a mat (if your still making > them). You could email me at if you’d like, or leave your > email here. I spoke with you a bit before concerning this, and would like > to get some more info. Thanks again for the help. Take care- ryan
Ryan,>>> That
s a fascinating reason to be making a new surfboard for mushy waves! > Yes, Im still making Neumatic surfmats, and interestingly, Im currently > designing/making a custom surfmat for a guy (an older, ex-Seal Beach > surfer) who now lives on the Great Lakes! Ive always been curious about > that area (Ive heard some stories) and after investigating a little, > talking to a few others who live there and checking out their many > beautiful surfing/wave photographs posted on the web, I was really > surprised!>>> I learned that its unfair to judge the Great Lakes waves and surfers on > the basis of what many of us take for granted nearly every day… and just > as it would be incorrect to compare Californias surfing conditions with > somewhere like the islands in the South Seas, it is entirely accurate to > say the Great Lakes surfers share with us the same passion to seek and > ride good waves, share friendly, uncrowded line-ups, explore and create > new surfcraft design, enjoy offshore winds and good weather, clean water > and travel to discover new spots, to experience these same things, all > over again.>>> Having surfed for many years in British Columbia, I can honestly say that > there can be a powerful and surreal, magicical quality about surf spots > that have good waves breaking where they simply dont seem to belong: > along inland waterways and rivermouths with trees growing almost to the > water`s edge, or farms and pastures alongside enticing freshwater > pointbreaks and sandy beaches. So, I got some strange, familiar feelings > when I began to study the surfing information and photos from the Great > Lakes.>>> You just might enjoy it, Ryan! Hey Dale, I’m glad to hear that from someone I highly respect when it comes to the design of surfcraft. It is unfair to judge someone as most people do, and the second paragraph above is very well put. I have seen numerous pointbreaks, rivermouths, and reef breaks in the great lakes with nothing but beautiful woods and open lake for miles around. There are many surf spots yet to be discovered. And the best part is when it is going off your all alone! That’s interesting that another lake surfer is ordering a mat from you. I’ll have to find out who and hook up with him for a session or two. Take it easy Dale- ryan