I have a few boards in the works right now and one that I am thinking about starting on is a shortened (8’0" ish) longboard shape. I am shaping these boards out of an 8’ block of 2# EPS so 8’0" is my straight line length limit, barring giant thick tail and nose blocks…!
The real goal of this shape is a good small-medium wave board that I can use to work on my noseriding. So it is a must that I can get five over and if ten can be worked up to so much the better. Note: I have only limited longboarding experience and have only accomplished quick cheater fives in the past, on a 9’ triplane-ish beast that I sadly destroyed getting greedy too close to heavy shorepound.
I have read around somewhat and found some insight on shorter noseriders, particularly from Benny1 among a couple others. but I am wondering if anyone can offer insight into the outlines/rockers that I have drawn up here. I am attaching a couple of PDFs from my AKU shaper drawings of the shape. Ignore the slices; I haven’t edited them…
Version A is more parallel in outline with more curve and a WP further forward; Version C is a little more piggish with more hip and a WP further back. Both have the same rocker profile right now. Rocker: not enough in the tail? too much in the nose? This will be my first longboard shape so I will be absorbing any suggestions… So which of these looks better to those who know? And what tweaks should I consider making to that one?
Any suggestions or input from folks who have experience with functional noseriders in this length would be great! I am looking forward to having a board that fills this slot in my quiver again.
That takayama looks nice! it looks like more of a modern longboard approach to me though; I am aiming for something that is more old-school in terms of its ride with a bit of a lean towards single fin and using a tail kick style of rocker. I plan on a heavy glassing schedule to get some weight behind it. I am debating a slight triplane bottom contour; maybe a light nose concave. Or one or the other.
The thumb looks like a trip. I’ve been playing with short weird little boards a lot lately though so for my noserider I think I’ll go for more length and cruise versus tiny and zippy. Looks fun though.
…leaning towards the second outline with a bit more of a piggish shape, option C. Still welcoming input.
Hey guy!,
This is what I see, as for following your dream of getting to the the tip! No long story here, but back in the day; the first time (1962) i laid eyes on California Hot Doggers hanging five @ Tracks, the rightside of the old Manners Quansette House, they had short boards (8’6" or so) then (unusual) for that period, they just ripped; and changed my style to no end! You can do alot to help you get up there, nowadays! But what is it that, you really want(?), an easy city side walk to get you there(?), or a purest shape & view of what noseriding should be? Go with a gradual, parallel to a wider hip & a square tail to hold your narrower nose up, of course the single fin with a wide base will deffinately help hear, stay away from concave, of the mid 60’s! This is your Pure California throw back! Good Luck! Don’t forget to wear your colorful “baggies”, if you know what i mean!
The Savage’
The reality is that the 10'0" noserider is a modern invention. Most of the noseriders in the sixtys were 9'2 thru 9'10 max. Think about it. A shorter board equals a shorter trip to the tip. A shorter board was also easier to swing. The boards that Michael Hynson and Skip Frye surfed in the Morey Noseriding Contest ( if I remember correctly) were 9'2 or less.
Ok! I’ll grant you that(!), that Hynson & S.Fyre rode shorter boards, i do remember seeing them ride a pointed turned down nose with a kicked, square tail that Skip & Hynson designed, and they did well on them! I lived with David Nuuhiwa (in 1965/66 in Westminster, California), and together on his bed we drew templates on paper what David thought a noserider should look like! All David’s idea, with a little input from me. From there, that design became, the David Nuuhiwa Noserider Model, that Bing Copeland signed David into contract, for rights to shape & sell in Hermosa Beach! David liked to ride a 10’ & i was riding a 9’10", now that I think back, that board was a little long for me!
Getting back to you, what is it that you want to do, with this short nose rider you speak of? If short is what you want, then go short! No one surfer has the answer, you searching for! Besides it seems that, you know the answer to your quest, to find the perfect short nose rider! Hey, have fun with it & good luck!
The Savage
PS: the 10 ft. Nose Rider is not a modern invention! It’s just surfers now days are a different breed & having a long nose rider helps with stability, an easy start to a whole new world of self expression, if you will.
Go with Donald Takiyama shape(!), he’s got the most experience, since he shaped at Bing, after shaping & riding for Dewey Weber, back in the day! Besides he is a Great Nose Rider himself!
You’ll get it right!
Go with Donald Takiyama shape(!), he’s got the most experience, since he shaped at Bing, after shaping & riding for Dewey Weber, back in the day! Besides he is a Great Nose Rider himself!
You’ll get it right!
Only fat guys rode boards over 10'0 in the mid to late sixtys. And -----------contrary to popular thought these days there were very few 23"----23 1/2" width boards those days . Most were 22 1/2" max. The standard noserider by '66 or 67 dropping in length well below the 10' length. Yes you can look thru old magazines etc. and find exceptions to the rule, but I stand by the fact that the modern day 10'0 by 23 1/2" longboard is a result of the 80's and 90's resurgence of longboarding.. The boards that Hynson and Frye were riding in the 2nd Morey Contest were not pointy nose in fact the noses were squared off. Hynson won that contest on his last wave but the judges were bull$#!ting and missed it, therefore failing to score a 9 point noseride. Munoz won. Even "Y' has subsequently admitted that Hynson should have won . Terry Jones won the first one the year before on a Tom Hale board. Tom Hale was a great classic shaper. I watched Tom Padaca surf circles around Nuiihwa, noseride after noseride backside. David had problems on the backside at C Street. Slept the nite before under the grandstand at the Fairgrounds in my 57 Chevy. Pulled up and into what was then nothing but a dirt and mud lot facing the break. Parked next to Dewey and Harold who were sitting with boards hanging out the back of Weber's black Malibu wagon.
Hey guy thanks for setting me straight on Mike Hynson and his squareish nose rider, yes of course, you got it! I lived with both David Nuuhiwa and Tommy Padaka just awesome goofy footers. Respect for each other, was always there! You know, Kekei o Ka Aina i Ka Pono! Tommy Padaka was a great guy always sharing, giving his all! His wife Rose was also a sweetheart! God bless both of them!
Very cool! Thanks for the info and comments. You know what you are talking about. I went down to the San-O contest in '96 or so (can't remember exactly) . I had to surf in David's heat. I was so out of my league. Yes, Tom Padaka was a very talented surfer and I always thought he didn't get credit due. He blew me and my buddies away that day. Question(because you might know) ; Is Myles related and if so how? Lowel
Yes, my friend! Myles is one of three sons that Tommy & Rose have, the other two i can not recall their names, for the life of me. The Padaca family was brought up in Kainalio, Kona on the big Island; in an avocado plantation house! Tommy did shake cedar roofing & since i was living with he & his family, i earned my keep by going with him and helped in anyway i could, clean up, get this, do that, etc. You don’t have to be told, you just do what’s needed! Kenny Tilton lived down the road, and it was always a pleasure to see him, anytime (which were numerous) he stopped by to chat. Life was good then! The last time i saw the Padaca boy’s, they were still very young. Anyway, that was the last time i saw the whole family together & that was on Oahu, i’m guessing 1973/74. Now, I hear our Tommy has checked out on that White Wave that never ends.
~<<<>>>~
I have a few boards in the works right now and one that I am thinking about starting on is a shortened (8'0" ish) longboard shape. I am shaping these boards out of an 8' block of 2# EPS so 8'0" is my straight line length limit, barring giant thick tail and nose blocks...!
The real goal of this shape is a good small-medium wave board that I can use to work on my noseriding. So it is a must that I can get five over and if ten can be worked up to so much the better. Note: I have only limited longboarding experience and have only accomplished quick cheater fives in the past, on a 9' triplane-ish beast that I sadly destroyed getting greedy too close to heavy shorepound.
I have read around somewhat and found some insight on shorter noseriders, particularly from Benny1 among a couple others. but I am wondering if anyone can offer insight into the outlines/rockers that I have drawn up here. I am attaching a couple of PDFs from my AKU shaper drawings of the shape. Ignore the slices; I haven't edited them...
Version A is more parallel in outline with more curve and a WP further forward; Version C is a little more piggish with more hip and a WP further back. Both have the same rocker profile right now. Rocker: not enough in the tail? too much in the nose? This will be my first longboard shape so I will be absorbing any suggestions... So which of these looks better to those who know? And what tweaks should I consider making to that one?
Any suggestions or input from folks who have experience with functional noseriders in this length would be great! I am looking forward to having a board that fills this slot in my quiver again.
I am 5'10", 175 lbs.
Cheers!
[/quote]
Instead of spending time "desigining" on the computer....spend some time researching blank catalogs.
A surfboard with 2 3/4" nose rocker will paddle very fast and "pearl" really well....and your numbers round out to 8 x 23 x 3.
Please take a good long look at the Mike Eaton 7'9" E from Clark Foam. I know Clark Foam is gone but I'm sure you can find an old catalog on the internet. My best 8 foot boards are based on the Eaton rocker...just streched out a little for my hot wire set up....US blanks has a very good online catalog with numbers and shapers comments.
Today I bought a 8'2"A US Blanks polyeurthane blank. The nose kick is for a gun. But the blank is wide and thick. I can get a really good 7'6" egg out of this blank...I can see it and feel it... I design full sized...
can you see past all those numbers? I'm no pro. Making my own blanks forced me to look at rocker. Rocker is the Key.
Some interesting history in there and some good gems of insight. I am
stoked to get a little extra input that 8’0" shouldn’t (given proper design) be an awkward or impossible length for good noseriding; as I said my only noseriding experience was on a giant 9’6" so a different category in terms of length and weight.
So these more modest-length longboards a la Frye and Hynson: Would these have featured a tail-kick style rocker like these drawings? And am I correct in thinking that the rails of that era would be softer further back towards the tail than more modern shapes? So I am thinking softer 50/50 rails most of the way back with just a small area of harder rails in the back 6 inches or so: would this be in the ballpark?
The rocker I used is based off of the rocker image of the Harbour surfboards ‘noserider’ model; ( http://www.harboursurfboards.com/surfboards.asp ) scaled down a bit to fit into an 8’0" shape and then tweaked a bit… maybe I should lift the tail kick up a bit more and add a touch of nose? I just want to avoid over-rockering to where it plows water or anything. As you said, stingray, rocker is the key!
Stingray, thanks for the suggestions and excellent suggestion about blank catalogues. til now my shaping has been from blanks and now I have only completed one board where I made the blank from scratch. Just the hotwiring alone is a whole other area of experimentation! I have another blank prepared right now and rocker templates for a couple more made but it is a whole new approach to the game for me right now. I will see about finding an old clark foam catalogue online, and I think I have a pdf of the US Blanks one on my computer somewhere; time to dig around in there. For some reason I never even thought of looking at those. Just got too stuck into the drawing mode.
I like this way of making my own blanks; it’s cheaper and I have more time than money these days. And it makes less mess since the blanks come out very close to where I want the final rocker and foil to be… but I kinda miss having a blank and digging around in it for the shape… less physical process.
and I like the idea of the squared-off nose style! I might try to draw that into the outline. It might extend the straighter sections of the rails a bit more without losing anything too crucial.
Thanks everyone for the input… Any other thoughts are welcome
Thanks for sharing that history and story. Means alot to me. I wish I had got to know Kenny when I was on Maui. He shaped and got his boards glassed right down the hall from me in the Haiku Cannery. I always wanted to meet and talk story with him but figured he wouldn't want to hang with a nobody like me. I almost bought the glass shop that he worked thru, but that's another story. I miss everything Hawaiian soooooo much. Thanks again. Lowel
You are right in your assumptions regarding rail and tail kick/rocker. I still keep thinking that those boards may have even been shorter than the 9'2" I mentioned. Maybe 8'6". Frye although a talented shaper in his own right was mightly influenced by Michael Hynson. Those boards had a low 60/40 rail in the nose. Can't remember if they had concave in the nose. Seems to me it was a subtle blended nose concave. For all his quirks and BS; Gordan and Smith would have been nothing without Hynson during that time frame.
Cool thanks for the extra input/confirmation on those elements. I think I will try the squared-off nose approach as well as a means of milking a little more close-to-parallel rail line out of my 8 foot limit. I can buy an inch or two with nose or tail blocks too probably, and possibly come out around 8’2" but that’s about it. I’m excited to work on this board!
I dug around a bit and found a downloadable pdf copy of the clark foam catalogue (from an old swaylocks thread, link miraculously still active: http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/clark-foam-catalog-line). Checking out the catalogue was a good suggestion; I am going to keep that in mind more in the future as in the past, working from blanks, that’s where I would have been starting. But now with hotwiring out EPS and starting from scratch I have been just going straight to the rocker numbers of the finished board, with just a little extra foam to let me flatten it all out and square it off before starting to shape contours and foil.
The 7’9"E Mike Eaton looked to me like it wouldn’t work for this purpose so well; by the description it seemed better suited to an egg or similar less noseriding-specific shape. The 8’8"E (also Mike Eaton designed) looks more like what I would work from in making this board from a blank though…Over 8’8" that blank comes with 3 15/16" of nose rocker and 3 7/32" in the tail.
Good resource, having that catalogue around. I can’t believe a link to now nonexistent company embedded in a swaylocks thread from 2002 is still working!
