Shorter mini guns with a bit more volume (re wizard sleeves, etc)

In the old daze, we triple glassed the tail bottom, quad the deck tail, then glassed on a leash holder spreading out the load 2' up the tail, rail to rail.  When leash plugs first came out, they broke instantly at OceanBeachSF, so we just doubled them....that might be around '73, but my memory is working against there.

Reason for narrow nose is penetration.  Offshore winds, even when the winds are ONSHORE, when the wave is moving fast enough, air moves up the face of the wave.  And the narrow noses allow the board to tip downwards with your head pressure, digging and driving your head and shoulders DOWNWARDS, into the pit.

Angle is much more important than paddling speed, as angle gives you the acceleration to drop DOWN before the lip starts to pitch.

  Using paddling speed to get waves only works in uncrowded spots, something not likely to happen ever again.  Guys who try to paddle fast into waves have to commit early, well outside, and often miss the best waves by making too early a commitment.  It would take 7 strokes or so to hit top paddling speeds, but a thicker tailed board with narrower nose can drop in with only 3 strokes.  Talking 8' waves, 7' boards.

  I know at Mavs and Wiamea, it normally takes more than 7 strokes to get in, but in this thread, we're talking MINI guns, for waves overhead to 10'.


I no longer have the orange one.  It was too thin for me, especially in Nor Cal where I surf most of the time.  I thought about Leaving it at my mom’s in Hanalei, but at 2-3/8", it was too thin for my too thick body there too (Kalihiwai when it’s firing maybe).  I have properly proportioned Brewer guns in 7’2", 8’0", 9’3", and 10’0".  I’ve also got an Andreini gun that’s 9’6" with balsa rails, and the Reno Abeillera guns in the photos.

And… in support of an earlier point you made… the last place I want to try crazy experimental shapes is where you need a proper gun.  I’ve got enough days under my belt where I was under-gunned, and ended up wearing glass curtains on my head. That was much more fun when I was younger and invincible.  Now I’m older, fatter, slower, and can’t hold my breath for five minutes anymore, so I like to at least think I’m gonna make the drop.  You other guys can try out the funny tear-dropped shapes and let me know how it goes ;) 


  I hear you....

  I"ve owned over 6 Brewer shaped by SteveMorgan guns from 8'10" thru 10'4".  Those are real big wave boards.

  I made 3 over 9'7", one I rode on those 3 tube rides in FredWindisch's movie.

  Made a whole passel of 8'6" x 20"ers....most over 3.25 thick.

  Heck, I'm 145 lbs., and my orange Plumeria is waaaaay too thin for overhead waves.

Steve Makes great boards.  Are you in Hanalei?  Best wave in the world… don’t tell anyone.

Even though I’m nearly 200 lbs now, I’m not into boards for critical waves that get too thick.  I end up feeling like I can’t dig them in when I get to the bottom of the wave.  I’d rather have a little more width and flatter rocker up front so I can get in, but once I’m standing I like to feel like I can burry the thing.  

I rode a borrowed 3" thick Brewer at Kalihiwai on an obscenely firing day, and ending up feeling like I was floating through my bottom turns.  Not a great feeling.  Reno borrowed an old 5"10" Steve Rex potato chip that I rode when I weighed 150 lbs, and totally ripped the place apart.  I was wishing I could shave a half inch off the thickness of the board i was on.  I only need the extra thickness when paddling in is an issue.  If It’s a predictable reef break (and I’m not trying to outpaddle a pack of teenagers), I can sit in the pit and try some no-paddle drops.  I’m happy to sacrifice paddle for bite then.  

Interesting.  Tell me more!  I’ve been foiling my tails out more than normal these days.  They turn much better, once going, but they do hang at the top on a take-off.  So how thick are you doing your tails @12" inches in relation to your center thickness?

I’d been adding thickness under the chest, to gain paddeling speed.  So you think I got it backwards?

  Lots depends on where you stand and where your WidePoint is on your boards.

  I"m a tail mashing tail rider, so easily 1.75 thick at 12" on most boards, but especially bigger wave boards.  NOTHING is worse in bigger waves than getting hung up at the lip by offshores, just hanging there and pushing your head down to get into the face.  You make up for the extreme thick tail by narrowing the tail, adding V, and softening the rails about 18" up from the tail.

  Most of my WidePoints are closer to 3" ahead of center, so coupled with the thicker tail, you can trim from the back of the board, in turning position, instead of needing to move to the center of the board, where you can trim turn, but not cutback.

I’m sort of with you in design and effect.  I usually put my wide points about 2 " behind center,  Tail widths very from 13 1/2"  to 16" depending on the design.  But you are onto something. 

My thinner tails hang up, but do beautiful cutbacks.  My thicker tails drop in better, track better on a steep wave face, but don’t like to change direction as much.  My boards that drop in better, I feel my knees on the deck while still paddling.  My better turning boards, the tail sinks a touch lower, so my knees don’t touch.

When I hear Mini gun I think 10 foot faces plus… DOH really… 6 to 10 feet would just be normal shortboard no? MAYBE a step up ish board if its mean… I have a 6’6" T&C Glenn Pang VT-1 that I ride if its like 8 foot faces plus… Up to about 14 feet and Im not a great paddler or great surfer. This board works for me in those waves (NOT PIPE) not too mean, but definitely barreling… It’s got one big single concave, round pin and 4 fins. It needs good surf to push it, but the control is unreal. Under 6 feet and its like banging a chick while she’s sleeping. You can do it, and it’ll work, but theres much better options out there.

Now, to some that might be a step up, or a regular shortboard. Its kinda in between. I mean this thing will NEVER work at diamond head no matter the size, so its kinda like a step up. But take it to walos or jockos when its overhead and its a ufcking champ, kinda like a sb. Pretty killer board. I do NEED more of a mini gun or step up or semi gun or whatever the ufck you want to call it for when the NS is over 12 feet and I want to surf somewhere good. You should see this board in person. So beautiful… Fairly relaxed entry rocker (I really think entry rockers waaaay overrated and should be flatter on most boards) decent tail rocker, simple rails… Nice tail… Ufcker flies.TC VT-1

Heres the description… Mines 6’6x19 3/4 x 2 3/4… I got it when I was 205 lbs. Im 185 now and I LOOOOVE it…

 ( Click here to buy online )

DIMENSIONS 6’0" x 18 1/2" x 2 1/2"

FEATURES Roundpin quad that paddles like a gun but surfs
like a shortboard on the face or in the tube

COMMENTS Step up shortboard for advanced surfers in
overhead waves

That board looks nice.

When i say 3 feet i mean head high and double over head means 6 feet. ten foot face would mean 5 foot. not sure what hawaiian terms  have heard differing reports. But its really all stupid. With Measurements in fins and surfboards so accurate we really should be measuring waves in milimetres. not im a tough chager who doesnt care" measurements.

Its innacurate. but everyone seems to stick to the headhigh = three foot so i will too.



That’s what I think too… and hollow and cranking so you gotta fly to not get swallowed or pitched.  Guns come out when it actually gets serious.

Nice board btw.  




Under 6 feet and its like banging a chick while she's sleeping. You can do it, and it'll work, but theres much better options out there.



hahaha... uhh...