Shorter mini guns with a bit more volume (re wizard sleeves, etc)

Anyone tried one of these style boards in large waves say at pipe or similar apart from KS?

Also see this board


How do they go?

I would like to shape one. except-

-Not so short

-Quad or 2+1

-A little more volume and forward foil-> (minute extra width, more vol under the chest), i like to get some speed up on paddling into heavy fast waves, not so much taking off in the bowl but getting speed up first

— when taking off with not much paddle speed its a jualt to your balance and in heavy waves, you lose confidence as well as potentially blowing the takeoff.

-Not so stiff. Kelly likes them stiff he says. would they still go well or even better with some tail flex?

Perhaps they will cutback better. But this board will be for barrels some speed checks and not much else.


Just after any info from people who have tried or shaped boards similar to KS wizard sleeve, deep six or the kook box hollow point.




have not tried one , Yet :slight_smile:


i like the concept for hollow waves or waves that have a pocket , bigger open faced stuff i still think a traditional step up will work best .

I had a request for a copy of one of Slaters personnel ones.  It was unmarked except for the shapers marks and no model lams.  It was a deep six though, no wizard sleve.  I was told it was a copy of the one he broke that year he won.  Board was in pretty bad shape, but it gave up its secrets.

The owner said it is a very good board for a very specific wave, barrels period.  He said you can ride the crap out of the board in any waves but it didn’t work so well.  Too stiff.  

I was more surprised at how little rocker the tail had, was expecting more along the lines of a 6 8.

The board was a 5 11.  Did a straight copy.  Rocker, rails, bottom contours, etc.  Should have taken a side by side photo as it came out pretty close.

My impression is that it is made to take steep drops and ride the foam ball in the barrel.  Narrow straight flatter back 2/3’s of the board with the fins moved pretty far forward for my taste.

Will probably do one for myself in the 6 2, 6 4 range for myself and tweak the tail rocker, center point width to get a bit more curve into the outline and tail rocker.  

  I've shaped over 300 semi guns between 6'8" thru 7'11".  Maybe 6 full guns 9' and longer, usually 19" wide.

  I don't think your template is good.  It's old fashioned, early '60's.  Modern boards tip over the edge early, requiring no more than 4 strokes to takeoff at Pipe.  I've surfed Pipe in the winter over 50 days.  Paddle speed is worthless for big waves.  What you need is a board that tips it's nose down, so you paddle downhill from the get go, and the board accelerates instantly, allowing you to stand up in time.

  I'd recommend you pull the WidePoint back to maybe 3" ahead of center on a 7'6"er, run the rails very parallel, and keep volume in the tail.  You don't sink the tail on semi gun waves.  You only bank in a rail, the board turns.  Try to keep nose and tail very similar in width, keep thick point around the center of the board, don't foil out the tail too much.

  But you can try it your way, and revisit the mid '60's.

josh kerr rode a 6’0 and 6’2 rusty slayer at huge chopes comp last year.

Shorter mini guns with a bit more volume (re wizard sleeves, etc)

What is a Wizard Sleeve?

No photos posted so far look like a mini gun..... As in mini gun being a small gun...or a smaller board for big waves???

....or Maybe you can use a mini gun in large but not so big waves??? Like 10 foot California?

My big wave friends tell me guns are really long like 9-12 feet

Let me guess....more funny names to confuse people....If Kelly can surf it most people cannot....Wizard Sleeve. good one.

We should just sleeve the Wizard alone and go back to our humble small wave boards....Ray



Last time I checked this design was called a Thumb. Not really for "big" waves.


[img_assist|nid=1066020|title=tracker|desc=|link=none|align=left|width=640|height=351]I have a pintail kinda similar to that, its perfect at 3-5ft 


I should have typed alternaitives to mini guns. and put up pics. the wizard sleeve is the picture of channel islands board up above, not the brown joel tudor but the Al merrick.

The Joel tudor i think is basically an exagerated idea, or as said above way more 60’s.

Wizard sleeve is its name due to similarity of an over used female body part.



Am really just looking at alternitives to a mini gun thats specifically for a certain wave which is long fast. more around the overhead to double overhead mark.

A few good posts here. I didnt realise shapers went thicker in the tail with mini guns. I thought you would have them refined but that sounds reasonable.


Looking at that wizard sleeve it just seems like a good board for barrels but if its big, even Kelly seems to have a wide stance on the thing to control it.


I would love to get those dims DMP. But perhaps im better of just sticking with a proper mini gun. watching kelly on the wizards they do seem very fast but just a bit out of control fast and loose.



Although even one of these looks extremely fun.




The very first board I shaped was along the same lines as the 'micro-guns' already listed. I figured I was going to mess up my first attempt so probably try something a bit different rather than making a daily driver. However I used a lightening bolt template as my inspiration and squashed it to 6'2" (the cubby bolt) 

I have never ridden the board in waves of significance such as pipe but I have taken it out on a few heavy days in portugal and it seemed to ride like it is on train tracks (probably helped by the quad setup). It is pretty shocking in waves under head high and it bogs on the shoulder unless I am flying because the tail is narrow; but for getting into hollow waves and trimming in the tube its pretty perfect. By total accident (inexperience) the board ended up really thin (2.25 which for someone at 220 pounds is pretty thin) and relatively little tail rocker and it seems to work well in this case. 

If I was making the same board again I would add a couple of inches in length, lose a bit of width in the nose and add more in the tail. I would probably make the board slightly thicker in the centre but keep the rails pretty thin as they are easier to sink during a critical drop.

You should have a crack at what you are proposing its all learning and figuring out what works for you. Luckily for me I got a few things right first time around and 6 boards later I am still using the same board when it heavy and hollow.


Seriously guys....All your pics are funboards with long tails to draw out the turn, catch waves later, and still hang up when the wind is offshore.

A mini gun would be something like 7'7" x 18.5, 11.5 nose, 11.25 tail, close to 3" thick.

A fun gun is a 9'6" x 20 x 3.5" thick x about the same nose and tail.

Your boards would never paddle into position, nor catch a real 8' wave.

mini gun:




holy crap gun:

We have a wave here that requires a board just like this.  People have been making specialized boards for this spot for years.  I know that when Slater started to get attention for his design and especially after his win a pipe shapers started to copy and test versions of their own.  I’m not the first to actually get their hands on either a stock board from CI or one of Slaters personnel ones to replicate.  

Last winter we had a pretty significant swell at this spot and it was pretty obvious what was working and what was just o.k.  It was ironic how many versions of this specialized board were in use as Slater showed up and put on a show.  He had a version of a wizard sleeve with a tiny swallow on the tail.  Almost all of the boards were quads.  

Just for clarification this board is not a board to replace a gun.  Late take off, no nose to hang up, foam forward for extra volume in a very small board, very manueverable board in the tube, fast!  Board was 5’11", 13 1/4" nose, 18 3/8" center 1" forward of center, 13 1/8" tail, 2 3/8" thick.  Single concave forward of center peaking between front fins to slight double to flat off tail.  Medium rails nothing extreme.  Volume on Aku was roughly 28.75 li.  Tail rocker was 2 1/16" and nose was 4 5/8".  I’m guessing this one was finished by Al as it was signed with the Christian fish, but that may just be a rumor. 

Pictures of big boards get my blood pumping.  Here’s a knee paddler gun that’s 11’3" 24" wide by 3 7/8" thick.  


they aren’t mini guns, they are ‘stub ups’. ie a stub version of a step up.



Don’t wanna hijack this thread, but here are some more gun pics:

Reno with a 9’3" and 9’8" pair.  Both have glass-ons and single channels running down the middles.  I drooled so hard over myself when I saw these that I had to have them:


RB with some of his balsas.  Not all guns, but he’s covered for big surf.  The four small towboards are Laird’s:


RB’s rockers:


My towboard is a baby gun:


Nice Brewer hollow single fin:


These ones just fall off trees in Brewer’s yard:


How about 10’ and 12’ (!) balsas:


Some Linden balsas:


These guys are ready for some big-ass waves:


Kendall's got the right idea.  Everything else is foo foo.

Notice the profiles on Brewers.  Thick point right at wide point.  One has a thin tail.  Probably the worst wave catcher.

What's more important than catching the wave?

And, I have a 8' version of the orange Plumeria, 13" nose and tail, a little thin at 2.75", actually made on Kaui.  It doesn't work in real 10' waves, but at Hanalei, close to pretty good.


Wow double leashing! Ive seen a few guys double leashing in indo. One guy who didnt seem to surf much by the name of Michael from H.I. or Cali i think. didnt talk much either

Swell comes at least triple over head, my mate hears Michael scrounging around and says whats you doing? He goes Double leashing man! paddles out and charges the biggest day of the year.


Also should i re edit the heading? Or keep the gun vibe?

Thanks DMP and others. trying to get the nose right on AKU shaper right now. Pity its a bit hard to do nose and tail measurements, 12 inches off the nose etc.Will work it out.



A lot of guns use two leash plugs, in case one comes out.  You still use a single leash, although much meatier and somewhat longer than your everyday driver, but it attaches to both plugs.  Just thinking about that makes me sweat a little :wink:  

A lot of the Mavericks guys are using break-away leashes with quick release pins at the leg attachment.  That way they can escape if their leash gets hung up on underwater rocks.  General thinking there seems to be that if you’re going to take a beating, you should do it as close to the surface as possible and get pushed in a little with each wave and out of the death zone.  That goes against my instincts, which is - head for the bottom and hope to eventually see daylight again.