I’m pretty sure all you experts are sick of hearing about these spinning problems but I wanted to see if anybody could help me in targeting exactly what the problem is with my current board.
I’ve been surfing for about year and a half. I started out on my 7’ egg (thruster setup) and moved onto a 6’6" single fin shorty a few months ago. The first few times I took the board out the waves were small (2 to 3 feet) and the board was absolutely fantastic! Absolutely loved the drag-free feeling. However, once the waves got slightly bigger (chest high and up) I started to notice that the board lost traction without any warning. I’ll try to do a bottom turn and at the last minute the board will slide out. Or, I’ll be going down the line and sometimes I could feel the tail starting to drift under my rear foot all of the sudden. I also tend to spin out a lot on rough, bumpy days.
So is it my fautly technique that’s causing all these problems or is it entirely something else? Also, I’m currently using a TK Flex 8.5" for my fin but would things become better if I use a stiffer fin?
Any type of info. will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
When short single fins evolved in the 60s and 70s, this was a problem. The solution was keeping a wide point well forward of center (in one 6’6" g&s I have, it is 7 inches forward of center), and keeping the wide point wider (19.5+ inches).
If you wish to avoid the front end sliding out on the same board, step more heavily on the rear foot through harder turns. You cannot ride through turns with your weight as far forward as you would on a thruster.
The other solution is a different template…one with more planing area further forward.
If you are riding one of the old school type single fins. It always was a problem with those designs. We all used to spin them out. I am no shaper, but I have always had a single fin in my collection since the early eighties. Does your board have hard edges on the bottom. Is it concave or vee bottom… I have found through riding Mccoys that softer rails hold in better than harder or even tucked under edges that have a tendency to do things on their own. The softer rails seem to roll up on bottom turns and really stick to the face of the wave. Jim Philips or some of the other exellent shapers here could probably give you more of a technical reason, but that has been my experience. Also I think the less things on a board the better like wings and such. (even though I love my double bump Lazor zap by Greg Pautsh.) Also I hate concave on singles. Good luck.
I have experienced similar sliding in the recent past. I was also using an 8" flex, which was great in smaller stuff or softer pointbreak waves, but in the juice it tended to slide out off the bottom or mid-face when trying to pull in under the curtain.
I have since changed three things: 1. I put in a stiffer 7" fin (this is for a 6’4" shortie); 2. I slid the fin back in the box; 3. I don’t try to ride the board like a thruster (i.e. drive excessively off the fins; pump mid-face when pulling into the tube). I have found that with a little fin refinement and attitude adjustment, the slides have waned a lot.
You’ve apparently stumbled across the fine line between freedom and loss of control. Try moving the fin back in the box. Still spinning? Try a bigger fin with less flex. Maybe a cutaway base with screw tab forward so you can move it farther back? Keep both fins - one for small days and one for bigger days.
Interesting comments regarding weight shifting - the hull guys might say stand in the middle and bury that forward rail. Kind of depends on the outline and rail foil though… most shortboarders have grown accustomed to driving off the fins.
How the board is rockered, th bottom and rails are configured and the width of the tail will have everything to do with what fin will serve it best. If you don’t want it to spin out at all put one of Cheyne Horan’s starfins on it. If you want it to drive better you need a fin without much flex. Flex fins work fin if you have a board that surfs very positively off the rails. But a short egg isn’t usually the kind of board that will do that well. Another thing to consider is that the board may not be dakind when the waves start mackin’ up. One thing for sure when the waves get big the fin needs to move back in the box some.
my days of experimenting with single fin short boards evolved towards 9, 10, 11, 12, and yes, 13" sabre shaped, narrow chorded, high aspect, extremely thick based singles… this with tail widths from 13-14" average.
Of course, by '70, everyone started with side bites, both ahead of and also behind the main 9" fins.
OBSD (rival shaper), used really thin, pinched, rounded rails, domed decks, and narrower tails to solve spinout.
If you still like the glide and drag free feel (which I don’t), try putting another fin, around 5", either behind or in front of your current fin…inline.
I think Blakstah’s fin box with a rotating fin is addressing the problem also.
I took the easy way out when I had that problem on my 7 foot egg…I added two side bites about 14" up from the tail with a 7" center fin about 6" up from the tail. The board works great now. I recently tried a winged keel on it but the waves were rather marginal so I could’nt get a good feeling about how it would really ride. Looking forward to trying it out again with the winged keel. I hope to shape a single fin egg that I don’t have to worry about tail slide. I havent had that problem with any of the single fin longboards I’ve shaped.
I have a feeling that somehow I didnt blend the outline, rocker, bottom together to work in unison. If I had to shape the board again, I’d stick with the outline but maybe soften the rails a bit and add more vee in the tail. I’d just love to have a short single fin that rides good and doesnt spin out…
The first is when the fin is too far forward. The nose spins inside the turn. It tends to happen on non-critical turns, and at low speeds.
The second is the nose spinning outside the turn. This one is more rare on longer boards. But the phenomenom is, you go into a turn with too much front foot. The nose of the board practically disappears outside the turn at light speed, and you fall on your face.
I assumed it was the second type, which is why I recommended a board with a wide point further forward, or riding heavier on the rear foot into more critical turns.
If it was the first type, moving the fin back will help - if it was the second type, then moving the fin back will make things worse.
There is actually not that much physics involved.
Blakestah - reinventing the wheel, 35 years later…
I agree with the sidebite option, that way if you wanted to you could get a small box fin and two fcs’s and ride thruster if you’d want. I’ve got a 6’7 egg and found that to be a fun option. I’ve never really had a problem with it holding as a single (8.5tk), except that really late takeoff’s are hairy sometimes.
I used to blame my board back in the gremlin days, but as time went by, I realized I was the problem. I was leaning way too far over from the board and no longer had my weight over the stringer. Once you are in this position, you can no longer get an edge in the water, just push the board away from you and get the fin(s) sliding through the water into a spin out situation
i find that single fins slide out when they have too much rocker. all of my boards are single fins with relatively flat rocker, 80’s rocker or flatter and they absolutley NEVER slide out regardless of how hard i turn and where i turn or pump on the wave.