single fins vs thrusters in big waves?

I’m just about to order a new hybrid for the big days, hurricanes, winter swells.

Thinking of a slightly wider gunny shape, something around 7’6" x 12.5"-20.5"-13.5" x 2-3/4".

Low rocker, hard rails.

But what about fins?

I’m thinking this thing would paddle insane with an 8-9" single fin, and would also hold well for big bottom turns but what would I give up? No need to pump rail to rail to get speed in 6-10’ surf, so why add the drag of thruster fins?

(Of course I could always go 2+1 and have the freedom to experiment)

For a period, at Mavericks, many of the regulars rode single fins. They have nearly all given it up for quad fins or thrusters. The quads have the two trailer fins moved a little further off the rail than normal. Taking a high line across the wave face is harder with a single, as is making a big bottom turn.

Singles are good for running for the shoulder fast.

I’m not an expert on fins, but i feel that in bigger waves I prefer a single fin on flatter waves and i prefer a tri fin (or 2 + 1) for stepper conditions.

I also find that a tri fin has more precision on high speed bottom turns.

Anyway i would go for the 2 + 1.

Good waves!

Just a thought, but what about a Bonzer?

The problem I always had with single fins on flat faced waves was, you just can’t seem to find the bottom and a goog square spot to set your turn. This is where the multiple finned boards excell, turns at any place in the wave.

I ran single fins on my guns for a couple years, I really liked the smooth feeling that I got when I dropped straight down a wave. But I finally got sick of having to draw my bottom turns out so much. I really have grown to like the positive feeling that the thruster setup provides off the bottom, plus I feel that I can take off at much steeper angles than I could before with the single fins. It seemed like before I was always worried that my tail was going to slip out when I would go over on rail, like I had to keep the board pretty flat at high speeds, with the thruster I can lean on it as much as I want. Just my .02 cents. -Carl

I think that on a 7’6" you can go either way, because you aren’t going to be out in the really big stuff. Pretty much depends on your abilities, with skill you can ride a 7’6" pintail single in pretty gnarly stuff; but if you don’t have the skill a couple more fins isn’t going to give it to you either. Both types are fun, just different.

That being said, my boards in that size range (7-8’) all have 3 fins. As noted above, better for seriously steep conditions…and with today’s crowds, sometimes you need to turn halfway down the face (instead of waiting for that big bottom turn) to avoid running over some kook who didn’t see the wave coming.

Thanks for the feedback.

My skills are average at best, and by big surf I mean head high to double over (I surf beach breaks in Central Florida, that’s as big as it gets (mostly)).

Last season I mostly rode my longboards for hurricanes, but I’m looking to turn a little more this year.

It’s hard to let an interesting surfboard design question go by without saying something (when one has something to say).

Regarding thrusters or singles in big waves, I am going to pipe up again in favour of the hybrid tunnel fin setup, which could be described as a tri fin or in line twin, depending upon how you look at it.

Obviously both singles and thrusters have been ridden successfully in big waves, and their characteristics are pretty well known. What would be of interest to most surfers would be a setup which combines the good points of both, without any of the drawbacks. The tunnel fin with singlefin setup (hybrid tunnel fin) is the best of both worlds. A tunnel does the same job as the two thruster sidefins, but with even more precision and drive.

The tunnel also avoids one little drawback of the thruster setup. This one little drawback is due to the toe-in of the thruster side fins. On most occasions the toe-in works very well, providing amazing manoeverability, and it is obviously a major factor in the success of the thruster.

It is no secret, however, that the thruster doesn’t like flatter waves, and it has also been reported by some surfers that they sometimes have problems with thrusters in certain kinds of large wave in particular those large waves with a long slope at the base.

These two characteristics of the thruster are due to the effect of side fin toe-in, and in the case of big waves, to the effect of side fin toe-in with outwards cant.

The thruster doesn't really come to life until it is put on the rail, effectively taking one of the side fins partially out of the equation. When ridden flat in the water the side fins tend to fight one another and cause drag. Surfers who ride thrusters well have developed a knack of riding on one rail or the other, and only using all three fins briefly during rail to rail transitions. This knack is more difficult to apply in flatter waves. What happens in bigger waves is another story. 

Big waves mean higher speeds. This is no problem for the thruster provided that it is kept on one rail or the other. If the thruster is surfed flat on the bottom at high speed, the toe-in drag and outwards cant will: 

    1) slow the board making it take longer to find the bottom of the wave; 

    2) make the board difficult to put on the rail as speed increases. 

So there is a typical situation where the surfer is trying to get to the bottom of a very long slope at the base of a big fast moving wave, in order to find a place to bottom turn, and it is taking longer to get there than it  

should (problem number one) The surfer then attempts to start drawing a line towards the shoulder of the wave, but is unable to put the board on the rail and redirect the board. This is problem number two.

Problem number two, that is an inability to put the board on the rail at high speed on long flattish slopes, is   

due to the fact that outward cant on thruster fins gives a horizontal control surface component to the fin setup. This horizontal control surface component is known as a hydrofoil. On a thruster, the horizontal hydrofoil component is angled downwards due to toe-in (toe in on an outward canted fin is not just toe -in, it is toe-down), and thus

pulls the tail of the board down.

Now it can be seen that we have two fins, both trying to pull the tail of the board down. What happens when the surfer starts to put the board on a rail, and the reason why he sometimes cannot, is as follows: 

A hydrofoil setup (which the thruster certainly is) develops power exponentially as speed increases. For example a hydrofoil of 20 square inches in area  will be impossible to dominate at normal surfing speeds on say, a six foot wave (The trick with them is to direct them, not overpower them) So with a thruster we have a hydrofoil area which is only a square inch or so and it is possible to overpower this control surface at normal surfing speeds. At high speeds even this tiny area will develop so much power that the weight applied by the surfer becomes insignificant in comparison to the downforce applied by the horizontal area of the two side fins. Thus the board cannot be turned. 

 There are further complications which the outwards cant of the side fins cause, in particular a resistance to rail to rail roll because of the outward pointing tips which don't want to move laterally through the water. 



The mysterious 'suction zone' at Mavericks is, I contend, due to the mysterious properties of thruster side fins at high speed. In other words there is no such zone. 



Big wave surfers are obviously remarkably successful at what they do, and in most cases have obviously tuned their boards to avoid these problems, which is perfectly possible by adjusting them to cope with a particular speed range. The potential for big wave problems still exists as an inseperable result of the thruster setup. 



The beauty of the tunnel fin setup is that none of these problems occur, ever. The tunnel has no resistance to rail to rail movement at any speed, and surfs at any angle including flat on the bottom without any increase in drag.  



The tunnel fin is also able to hang in to incredible late drops, even those which are beyond vertical. They have incredible drive and are at least as fast as the thruster, and often much faster. 



 Honestly, Roy Stewart

Larry,

You can have both single and thruster. Install a small Bahne box at center and fin mounts of your choosing along the rails as fronts. Mucho versatility…u can setup as single, 2+1, hybrid, thruster, whatever.

As mentioned earlier, thrusters hold better in steep conditions.

If I were in your shoes my choice would be a larger center fin (5.5 - 7") and smaller fronts (3.5 - 4.25") than a traditional semi-gun…its like a hybrid of a 2+1 and a thruster. Laird Hamilton’s tow-in board features this type of setup…great speed with excellent control. Good luck.

This setup is used quite a bit around here also - standard thruster fin placement and toe and cant, but the rail fins 1/2 to 1 inch less depth than the center fin.

Works well.

Quote:

Just a thought, but what about a Bonzer?

Bingo. Confused about 1 or 3 fins? Go with 5.

Sure - Why not 7 or 10? But seriously, I haven’t ridden a Bonzer, but I understand that they have the down the line speed thing worked out pretty well, so why not use them for a big wave board?

Why doesn’t anyone use them as big wave boards???

Concaves are really frowned upon round here in big waves - everything is vee vee vee. The feeling of a concave when you run out onto the flats after a big drop is not unlike a big sucking sound and putting on the brakes.

Opinions may vary - but concaves are uncommon for big wave boards in northern California.

Concaves are really ‘skatey’, and they suck in chop… I don’t know about you NorCal guys, but we rarely get big clean waves down here. Not to mention you don’t need the lift when you’re on the big ones. And being able to turn at high speeds, to avoid getting taken out by a monster… is usually a good thing.

Choosing bottom configuration for big waves depends on the surfboard. If we’re talking about paddle in surfing. There is a place for concaves if it is done properly, however putting a concave surface on a large paddle in board in the central two thirds of the bottom can spell disaster because it will make it skittery and unmanagable when a little chop appears on the surface of the water. Convexed surfaces on paddle in boards are the norm but a little concave in the last bit of the tail can add some nice lift and be a useful way to create some extra speed and give the board more life.

Tow-in boards with a thruster set-up is a whole different ball game. Many of the 6’8" or so 20# plus boards we see at Jaws, Mavericks and ShipSterns have a deep single concave running the length of the board. These boards live on the rail and thus they want the rail to to be very positive, so they take the bottom out of the picture and reduce the wetted surface of the board. That is how they get all that speed. They need the board weight to board size ratio to do accomplish this. ~ But it’s all just beginning ~

            &

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,

Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Off to the shaping room, Rich

In reference to his tow-in boards:

“… the fact is if you look at pictures of people riding paddle boards down the face once they’re really going down the face only the very back of the board is really touching the water on the drop. That is the business end, we put all the horsepower right where you’re standing with a full concave and they really do work. They do go faster.”

Dick Brewer

http://www.juicemagazine.com/DICKBREWERSURF.html

Bonzers in big waves.

They’ve been provenon the North Shore. Cheyne could comment on this one. Other’s have fidden them there with success. You can actually alter the depth of the concave!!!

Why even argue? Don’t try them. Thursters rule.

Hey Roy,

What boards have you run what you call you’re tunnel fin on?

I’ve seen a few photos you posted but no real detailed ones to show board rocker, bottom configuration, lenght to width ratio or the like.

A few thoughts:

It might better be called a loop, semicircular or half-pipe fin.

The term tunnel fin has all ready been used and it seems to me that a clearer reference to its actual shape would be appropriate.

Good Surfin’, Rich

Hello Rich,

Well I think that you can call them what you like. Over in rodntube’s paipo forum we are calling them orbulators. Nevertheless a tunnel is still a tunnel, and part of the reason I am calling them that is out of respect for the inventor. If you really, really want to know what I am running these fins on you could spend fifty bucks and buy a set of plans , they are listed on my site at www.woodensurfboardbuilder.com Some of the pictures on the site should give you a fair idea for free. I have plans drawn for my 10’4" ‘thrusterbuster’ which I could load up for you anytime.

Roy