I know… Longboard Magazine had a picture of the fins - they took it on the beach after seeing me ride the board about a year and a half ago - in the back of the mag. I’ll see if I can find it and scan and post it.
wow art thats a styley set up
yeah thats an mvg
im using MarkSpindlers
i really noticed the difference on my backhand
and i guess its becuase i surf more of my back foot when turning
It’s really weird, because I was trying to imagine fins that would have both a vertical element and a horizontal for that effect, but I was imagining something with an ovoid foil element and the same curve on both the entry and trailing edges, so you could skate it backward and forward and slide it around switch, cess slides, stuff like that.
(Whoa on the thread hijack, self)
But as far as drive is concerned, that’s really interesting too because the fins were so effective at augmenting the hold, lift, and plane drive of the rails, that you eliminated all kinds of non-laminar flow (drag) off various control surfaces, and felt like the rails were not the biggest release element. There’s a similar useful thing happening on passenger jets these days–they have a vertical element on top of the wingtips, to keep the flow off the top of the wing from combining with the flow off the bottom, which they used to do, and it would generate a (visible) serpentine vortex and bad upsetting following smaller aircraft. I think I remember reading where those things also eliminated so much drag caused by those vortices that they ended up improving the fuel economy of the aircraft very appreciably, which means that Laird’s design is probably eliminating so much drag off the fin tips (and the rail release)… you could probably add some drag back in for more control?
(On the four fin skate deal, I just get keyed up about the possibility of 2 toed-in hydrofoils at both ends of the board, to be able to skate and slide around on the [toed-in? with holes in the middle of the vertical elements?] hydrofoils instead of relying on the rail and its drag so much. And be still have the rear rail be able to hold in for tubes, high-line stuff)
When you say the lift side, you mean the flat side was on the botom when the board was on the water, yeah?
Seen the Velzy V fin yet?
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I know… Longboard Magazine had a picture of the fins - they took it on the beach after seeing me ride the board about a year and a half ago - in the back of the mag. I’ll see if I can find it and scan and post it.
ooooo. i wanna see pictures!!! that fin setup sounds gnarly!!!
and soeaking of futures, i had a set of 3/2’s like a year ago, before a friend borrowed them and lost them, and bottom turning for big rick was rather nice… being that i would bottom turn, before owning a set of 3/2’s, and lose just about all my speed… now i when i had the 3/2’s i was retaining speed like a bloated chick retains water…
can’t wait til i get a set of 3/2/1’s and take those bad boys out for a speed session during the cane season
aloha!*
-big rick
Here are pics from the Futures website. They’ve changed the fin to look more like a traditional Vector with an appendage off the side. The side bits are smaller than the ones I’ve tested, and they’ve left the tip on. My guess is these don’t have the same dramatic amount of lift of the originals.
The fins I tried need a board specifically built for their use. Other than placement, the boxes need a tremendous amount of reinforcement so they don’t rip the board apart. I ripped the tail out of a super strong carbon fiber board using those fins. I didn’t think it was possible, but it happened.
It’s possible the fins on the site were designed to work in a normally set up board? Not sure.
Oh yeah… lift side is on top when the board is in the water.
http://www.swaylocks.com/images/gforum/files/image.gif
http://www.swaylocks.com/images/gforum/files/image.gif
The original mold and some examples of the Velzy Y fin are on display at the Surfing Heritage Foundation in San Clemente. I’ve never tried one but Bill Stewart told me they sucked - just too much fin. I don’t think Velzy really exploited the concept. Maybe with some more thought and testing you could come up with something that works…
Apparently, I haven’t fugured out how to tick pics in my textbox… here’s another shot at making the images available
Help… one more try.
They’re selling them again. I don’t know if they’ve refined them or what.
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MVG (multi vortex generator)= fins
Wow !
More wow. . . I like the hatchet fin heaps and the wing fin looks pretty nice too, just like some we used to make, probably they work well as a thruster back fin?
Guess what though. . . the tunnel does the same job regarding the lift you are talking about but it does it with a lot less drag and smoother handling
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I’m with Tom Bloke, I put the new vortex tunnel fins on my 9’6" Brewer gun and now I’m ready to charge! See ya in the water! No more bogging down Tri Fins on 12-15 ft waves for me!! I’m sold!
Jay the Resinhead
V.P Sales, TB Vortex Inc.
Oh my Lord! Buwahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
CarveNalu my friend, I don’t mind that you guys are kidding and trying to make fun of me, I really don’t. . … partly because every time you do it gives me a chance to repeat the message about the tunnel fins. . . they really are exceptionally efficient fins… . . . and Resinheads post, even though it’s a joke, is really expressing the truth. . . . … . . I suspect that you are reacting to the tunnel fin on some kind of social basis rather than taking it objectively as a great fin advancement. . … how about a challenge. . . you glue one onto an old singlefin gun and give it a whirl. . . go on mate, be a sport. . . no wimping out . . . . it’s only a few days away by post !
I will let you into a little secret too. . . Barney and I have discovered that by knocking the corners off those square wheels they go faster. . … we have a hunch that if we make those wheels round, like the moon, that they will go even faster again. . .
Major Tom Roy Fred Flinstone Bloke Stewart VII, B.A. Dip fintech
Jay,
Say it isn’t so! Please tell me you haven’t gone over to the Dark Side!..PLEEEEASE! !
Come on Bill, a tunnel fin isn’t the dark side, and nor am I, that’s a pretty bad thing to say, cut it out please… . . I’m on the bright side OK ?
Thanks in advance
Roy
No, Roy,
I think you are on the light side, not the bright side. I think you may well be the lightest guy on Swaylocks. The tunnel fin was a failed concept as early as 1963/64. You do a disservice to all, by dragging it back out embellished with outlandish claims of performance that defy the laws of physics. Why do you do it? Is it for money? Or perhaps it’s for money, or maybe it’s money, or it could even be for the money. It’s the money, isn’t it? Why else? Fame? Fame for what? Oh, fame for a failed fin concept. Now that’s something to strive for. Dark Side…the side without light, or enlightenment. I think the term is appropriate. Bad thing to say? I don’t think so. Why not put the fin system on a Fat Penguin? Seems like a match made in heaven! You have much in common. You know, unsupported claims of performance, beyond mortal experience. If you do have the better mousetrap, the surfing world will beat a path to your door. No amount of chest thumping self promotion will get the same result. So, relax. Let it happen, if it will.
Thanking you in advance for not whining.
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No, Roy,
I think you are on the light side, not the bright side. I think you may well be the lightest guy on Swaylocks. The tunnel fin was a failed concept as early as 1963/64. You do a disservice to all, by dragging it back out embellished with outlandish claims of performance that defy the laws of physics. Why do you do it? Is it for money? Or perhaps it’s for money, or maybe it’s money, or it could even be for the money. It’s the money, isn’t it? Why else? Fame? Fame for what? Oh, fame for a failed fin concept. Now that’s something to strive for. Dark Side…the side without light, or enlightenment. I think the term is appropriate. Bad thing to say? I don’t think so. Why not put the fin system on a Fat Penguin? Seems like a match made in heaven! You have much in common. You know, unsupported claims of performance, beyond mortal experience. If you do have the better mousetrap, the surfing world will beat a path to your door. No amount of chest thumping self promotion will get the same result. So, relax. Let it happen, if it will.
Thanking you in advance for not whining.
Mate you make me feel really sad, you know that?
The fin is really great, it didn’t catch on in the 60’s because it wasn’t fully understood. . . it needs ideally to be combined with flat plane fins. . . this wasn’t done in the 60’s. . . .also it works better on boards with a flat tail and a fair dose of nose lift. … . there are excellent hydrodynamic reasons why.
It’s pretty rich making out that I’m in it for the money. . . . . the money i have spent setting up a tunnel fins for sale would have already made far more if i had left it in uranium. . . . I knew this before I did it. . . . .I am doing it out of sheer stoke, it’s an offering to the surfing community, and as for fame, I can never become as famous as my ancestors, so WTF !
Now please do us all a favour and cut out the hate.
So far Silly, Heist and Chipfish are the only ones on Swaylocks willing to give it a go. . . Heist had good results with a square tunnel previously. . .funny how they are all Australasians , makes me wonder what you are scared of Bill, it’s only a fin, a piece of ruddy fibreglass in the shape of a half pipe. . . .it doesn’t have horns and a forked tail.
Could you give me some more info on the Hydro fin setup please.
What range of conditions does it work in i.e. mush burgers/windslop, DOH & Offshore?
Where does the drive come in ? after a solid bottom turn like a Bonzer >
Does it need any special board features, hard edges, concaves etc ?
Thanks
Kieran
Roy, just how does that tunnel foil work on a high performance shortboard like a sub-6’ fish, instead of a 15 foot wooden teardrop that’s not meant for much turning, say?
And you say it needs regular fins to work too… anyone can make their own third straight fin, so you’ll admit your solution adds a wrinkle in terms of complication to an otherwise very straightforward setup…
it may just be one of those answers to a question nobody but you is asking. It looks like it works, for what you use it for, it’s just that it adds complication out of proportion to its solution of problems most people don’t perceive—hey it happens
I believe the saying goes–“build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door” How’s your lawn looking?
There’s nothing wrong with you enjoying your tunnel fins and turning on people that ask about them–but you seem rather to wheel on people that question them–also you seem addicted to the last word
I look at your effort, and I think it’s not the money, it’s just an obsession.
Ah yes,
The famous ancestors, the Neanderthals. I think you are right up there with the best of them. It’s not hate Roy, it’s intolorance of the level of misinformation that you regularly promote. It’s insulting to anyone with the slightest grasp of how surfboards and fins function. And I can’t leave out your petty snipeing style of self promotion. That is why you find yourself the object of humor. I think you should have stuck with Uranium. It would be nice,now, if the original topic were to be addressed, in the event that there are some contributors with information to share. This is my last post on this topic. Be a gentleman Roy, and don’t keep the antagonism boiling. We can agree to disagree, and let it drop.
Hey Art,
The “Alba” set-up (Greenough helical foiled rails - Orca center with mental MVGs) that I built a couple of years ago which you have posted is anything but drivey. It’s a pure speed fins set-up. That’s what it was built to provide. It does in spades! The board feels like it has oil on the bottom of it with it but it simply won’t do when the waves steep. I won’t enter the discussion over which fin set-up is driviest because each board will find its performance maximized by a different fin system thus the quest for answere will go unrequited.
Mahalo, Rich