Singlefin, TwinFin, Tri-fin which is the driviest?

I am just trying to settle an argument here. I have stated that a twin fin is the driviest until it is pushed (by either wave or surfer) to the point of sliding out. At that point the thruster takes over.

A single fins main characteristics is hold and generally twins drive.

Am I wrong, please explain why if so.

The discussion started because I said the side fins are the fins from which the board is driven and that the back fin of a thruster is there to hold and thus allow both a vertical and high lateral line on a wave.

Certainly makes a difference, but what makes more difference is how exactly each board is shaped and what the purpose is by whom.

You can have totally solid holding twin fins (my 8’6" x 18.25 with two 7" fins, 12" tail NEVER slid out in ANY kinda of waves I could paddle into), tri fins, quads, singles or whatever…

And some pilots naturally gravitate towards certain design and fin configs, while others prefer other kinds…

thanks LeeDD, I appreciate your answer. I am well aware of that there are more factors to it than just fins but for the sake of argument and keeping the terms in general, would you agree that twins are the driviest(until pushed by either surfer or wave beyond holding point) or are singles the drivier of the two?

Sorry, still depends what fin for what config ridden by whom.

Take three identical surfboard shapes, a compromise between single, twin, and tri…

Put too small a fin on the single, it slides. Too big a fin, it’s got drive.

Same goes for twin and tris.

My 5’6" twins NEVER slid, in waves up to DOH, because I used 7" side fins, softer rolled rails, and tail widths around 15".

Take a tri fin and put too small fins, it slides. Put too big fins, it’s got drive.

Question is kinda like …“what kind of girl is best for me?”

Answer is, DEPENDS what you’re looking for, what’s availible , and what’s attracted to you, as well as what you are attracted to…

Singlefin with inline tunnel fin.

Definitely the driviest of all.

As surfers will eventually discover.

:slight_smile:

I. Don’t. Think. So.

saynomore

…“what kind of girl is best for me?”

HA!

One thing that can be said with confidence is that drive is largely dependent on length of the fin base, times the number of fins actually doing work. Problem is, when you bank a turn, things start to change. So while you bottom bank your 5-6" twinny and the outside fin looses its base hold, a thruster still has two locked in there…4.5+4.5=9"…9>6…so mathematically, thruster wins.

But who cares about math right? Just watch the best twin finners vs. the best thruster surfers and decide…kind of hard to ignore the reality of thruster’s…

“thruster”…there’s a valid reason for its name

I ‘might’ be just a bit biased…

Cheers

Quote:

I. Don’t. Think. So.

saynomore

And why not Charlie? The fin has exceptional hydrodynamic qualities.

:slight_smile:

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Problem is, when you bank a turn, things start to change. So while you bottom bank your 5-6" twinny and the outside fin looses its base hold, a thruster still has two locked in there…4.5+4.5=9"…9>6…so mathematically, thruster wins.

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That problem doesn’t exist for the tunnel fin. . . :slight_smile:

Quote:

…“what kind of girl is best for me?”

HA!

One thing that can be said with confidence is that drive is largely dependent on length of the fin base, times the number of fins actually doing work. Problem is, when you bank a turn, things start to change. So while you bottom bank your 5-6" twinny and the outside fin looses its base hold, a thruster still has two locked in there…4.5+4.5=9"…9>6…so mathematically, thruster wins.

But who cares about math right? Just watch the best twin finners vs. the best thruster surfers and decide…kind of hard to ignore the reality of thruster’s…

“thruster”…there’s a valid reason for its name

I ‘might’ be just a bit biased…

Cheers

Craftee, what wins between a twin and a single fin?`

I wrote earlier that the twin has intially more drive until it is pushed beyond what it can hold, that’s where the rear fin in a thruster comes into play.

What might be helpful to consider is if somebody defined “drive” --“someone” should be sure to include all possible factors— the fins: surface area, toe-in, number, configuration, flex, cant, foils; the board: rail contours, bottom contours, thickness flow, planshape outline, flex, tail shape; the surfer’s style: pumpy, coasty, back foot, front foot---- that all contribute to a surfer (or his/her surfboard!) converting gravity combined with forward wave motion into lateral motion down the line.

What I think is really interesting is what happens in terms of the thruster’s center fin’s leverage and stabilizing influence on the foward fins, how it adds its own surface area to the overall control surface area and simultaneously prevents the inside rail fin’s over-rotation/stall/cavitation when its angle of attack is increased during a bottom turn or pumps. It basically slows the pivot just enough to where that stall doesn’t happen or happen so completely and adds in its own lateral assistance so the rails can hold. The combined effect of all three fins and a back WP, along with concaved bottom, effective rocker, etc allow the rail to penetrate, hold in, and be useful throughout a turn as a lateral springboard, and all together produce hold and drive.

All of the opposing planes of the control surfaces (toed-in rail fin, center fin, bottom concave, rail) counteracting each other also produce drag, when trimming, or when straight-off, so the question really becomes one of passive “drive” or active. I think on active drive, pumping for acceleration, thrusters take the cake, for all the opposed control surfaces’ impart stability and you can smoothly transition force between them all (sometimes).

Maybe by deleting some of the leverage-induced drag, and keeping some of the leverage–quads may become more of a force to be reckoned with. Perhaps two smaller rear fins moved closer to the outward corners of the tail.

But anyway–if you mean active drive, a board that can be pumped explosively and controllably and speed added in by the surfer working against the combined control surfaces, you’re talking about a huge component of what allows all the turns and pivots of modern shortboard surfing, like the front tires’ camber that enables F1 race cars to initiate turns so quickly and corner so fast. Opposing control surfaces in effective sizes and configurations. So you move much toward the passive drive side of the equation, and you start robbing capabilities from Kelly, et al. Active drive = drag, and available speed and control. Passive drive = effortless speed.

If you think twins are the driviest, I think you’re really talking about passive drive: big speed, big keel fins, WP forward, straight rails – 2:1 WP to tail tip width ratio. Fish.

This is all with shortboards in mind, mind you.

Quote:
I. Don't. Think. So.

saynomore

Bwahahahah!!! Classic Charlie goodness.

what about mvg s

they make a difference as well

i was very impressed by the difference surfing backhand with mvgs

had a lot more speed and drive out of cutbacks

Quote:

I am just trying to settle an argument here. I have stated that a twin fin is the driviest until it is pushed (by either wave or surfer) to the point of sliding out. At that point the thruster takes over.

A single fins main characteristics is hold and generally twins drive.

Am I wrong, please explain why if so.

The discussion started because I said the side fins are the fins from which the board is driven and that the back fin of a thruster is there to hold and thus allow both a vertical and high lateral line on a wave.

"arguing is a full time job best left to those who like it "

            [ambrose] 

here’s a link , see what you reckon …

http://forum.surfermag.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1035947&an=0&page=0#loop

I’m with Tom Bloke, I put the new vortex tunnel fins on my 9’6" Brewer gun and now I’m ready to charge! See ya in the water! No more bogging down Tri Fins on 12-15 ft waves for me!! I’m sold!

Jay the Resinhead

V.P Sales, TB Vortex Inc.

WP and mvgs ??? i would mind knowing what they are

… if you ask me on the whole drive thing… i feel that twinnies are good for speed down the line…

i think i might be over exaggerating here but i have a few friends that have surfed some big glassy hurricane surf here in FL and seen the people who ride the twinnies get a lot more drive that the thrusters… seen those dudes launch off a wave faster and higher than those during a 4 foot tow at session.

and very passive on their drive as well… never seen almost effortless surfing come from any one who rides a thruster…

but thats just me…

we all have our own opinions and theorys about this but i think all in all… the complete setup of a board (fins[depth, base, and the ammount of], rails, concave, width, rocker ect.) determines how much drive one can produce.

aloha!*

-big rick

MVG (multi vortex generator)= fins

This works pretty good for me ! I know it looks like a bit of a compromise but my 6’1" has loads of drive and the centre half moon fin prevents it being too skatey despite the semi hard rails. Stevo

The driviest fins I’ve used - by a landslide - so far are prototypes made by Futures for Laird. It’s a tri setup kind-of.

The center fin is their Hatchet, the side fins are essentially Vectors that have had the top third cut off with about half of an additional Vector attached at a 90* angle towards the outside (with the lift side facing up). The toe-in is almost non-existent, and the fin placement is well forward of a typical thruster.

The fins create a hydroplanning effect that has to be experienced to be believed. They take the board out of the equation.

When you look down the board appears to be in the water as normal, but it fees like someone is pushing you from behind. You can feel the difference even while paddling. The board naturally wants to climb the face of the wave, so you’re always driving down to keep from going over the top. When you dig in to turn it feels like you’ve planted a pole in the ground and rotated around it - no side slipping at all. One of the most eye opening experiences I’ve had surfing (I thought I knew everything).

Futures has done testing using GPS equipped boards and found that the boards with Laird fins were something like 18% faster than the same boards with traditional thrusters. That’s a significant number.

Also, the Vectors are way faster than flat-sided fins both in thruster and twin set-ups. Try a set of 3-2-1s and you’ll see the difference. The basic idea is to get the water moving on both sides of the fins at the same speed out of the trailing edge so the lift is directed forward instead of off to the side.

All I know is my eyes have been opened - I see colors I didn’t know existed before.

Well, dang. Your post only lacks one small thing: several large pictures!!!