Skil 100 upgrade?

General Discussion
1

Hello all!

 

First off, let me say that I am not a surfer. I am not a board maker. I just wanted to get that out of the way so that I wouldn’t be seen as a poser. :slight_smile: What I am, is a carpenter. I’m in the High Desert in california, and make pretty much anything to do with wood in my shop- cabinets, furniture, pistol grips, signage, rifle stocks, etc- but my hobby is repairing and reselling antique and vintage tools. I just came across a Skill 100, version 3 5.5a. I was planning on doing the regular clean up- new bearings, belt, blade honing, cord, and either buff or powdercoat, then sell and move onto the next cool toy I find. 

Why is this not in the sale forum, you ask? Well, I’m not trying to sell the tool, not yet anyway. When it is ready for sale I’ll get it up over there. Anyway, my purpose here is to ask about upgrades. When restoring tools, I like to look at their design and see what can be done to improve them. I know that a new dust chute was designed a while ago, as well as a new height adjustment shoe. The shoe on this planer is in great shape, so I’ll leave it be- the dust chute is missing, so I’ll fold/ weld up a replacement. I’m working on a swithable design that is a chute to the side as well as a vacuum hook up. 

Now, the big design difference that I would like to play with is the height adjustment. In my research, I see that those of you that use the Skil, or any planer for that manner, dynamically adjust height as need be when tapering off, etc. To this end, I’ve seen it advised to remove the click adjustment to allow for a smooth height transition. My concern with this is that without the click, I wonder if the height could wander a bit. Also, you would have to adjust your hand hold to affect height adjustment, which I’m sure is learned without a problem, but I’m wondering if it might be better to be able to adjust without moving your hand on the front knob? Here’s my idea- what about a linkage attached to the height adjustment rod such that when the front knob is turned, it turns the height adjuster? I’m thinking about a spring loaded detent system that give you positive position locks, but which could be defeated with a finger press for a smooth transition. So, is this weird? Is it something that would be of utility to you guys? If I engineer it and machine the parts and it works, the buyer of the plane likes it, etc, I would probably make a couple more up for anyone else that was interested, but for now, I’m really just asking your opinion. What other things could be changed on the 100? Any other ideas for mods I could do to make it easier to use or more appealing for you guys? 

 

Thanks for the input!

-Michael

2

There is already a readily available surfboard planer that works by turning the knob  – the Clark-modified Hitachi - so I wouldn’t bother changing a Skil to do the same. 

Take the clicker out, that’s a standard change.  (Positive position locks are usually disabled, not added.)

Make sure it runs well with good belt, brushes, and sharp well adjusted blades.

Only really good idea I’ve heard lately for improving a Skil 100 is to try to fit a spiral cut blade to it, like the blade in a 653 Rockwell.

If you can do that, I’d love to see it, and I might even buy one from you.

3

leave it like it is. maybe put new bearings and sharp blades. If the next person wants to disable the clicker let them do it. All you have to do is stick a long screwdriver in the slot and bend the lever down (thank to Herb Spitzer). Carpenters are gonna want the clicker intact.

    There are a lot of them on Ebay. As of late prices around $400 or so.

4

Leave it like it is and let your buyer change whatever they will.  When I sell a Skil it is a Skil that I have set up for myself, so all the most common modifications have been done and that's the way it is sold.  It is also the most suitable version for surfboards.  Watch a you tube video or two of shapers using a Skil.  You'll see that there would be no advantage to a linkage set-up tru the knob. The clicker in the depth adjustment can easily be removed or disabled allowing "on the fly" adjustment.  A Skil 100 is so suitable for surfboard shaping that the newer "Accurate Planer" is a modernized copy.  Do the belt, bearings, brushes, sharpen the blades.   A new trigger, twenty-five foot cord, and  bead blast would be optional.  List it on Ebay or preferably the Surf shop here at Sways.   Don't get too much money tied up in it.  A good five amp should sell for about $500 or less. Not $800 or 900.  There have been a few on Ebay recently that had no bidders.

5

Yeah I tweek the pressure plate so the lever moves easily but stays put when you remove your hand.  Cant imagine removing the part, nothing worse than a floppy lever.  

Spiral blade for the Skil is an interesting idea, hope somebody makes that a reality.

6

Okay, I’ll clean it up and replace the bearings. The belt looks new- there is literally no wear on it. I’ll hone the blades and install a new cord. 

You guys have me thinking though- what about a spiral carbide insert head, like a Byrd Shelix? basically it’s a cutterhead with square carbide cutters set up in a helix around the head. Each square is rotatable for 4 sharp edges and can be replaced individually if you get a nick, etc. I have some calls into manufacturers about the possibility- would there be interest in this in the surfboard community? I’m guessing cost would be around $2-300. Square cutters run around $3 or so each to replace. 

 

What you you think?

-Michael

PS- I also have a Rockwell 653 with a spiral cutterhead, so I can look at that option as well. Would you all be happy with the 653 style cutterhead? It’s a solid cutterhead with the knives machined in- there are no knives to replace, just hone the whole head. This would actually be much easier and cheaper to make up if there’s interest. 

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The 653 style cutter head is what we’re after.  Sounds like the cost might make it unrealistic

8

"Sounds like the cost might make it unrealistic"

The guy from the tool shop in Pennsylvania who has some newly manufactured  653 cutters listed has only sold one so far to date on eBay.  The listing says he has "more than 10" available. 

If that's the market, it wouldn't make much sense to tool up for production.  Maybe the Skil 100 guys would fall all over themselves to buy them but I doubt it. 

 

9

I am of the opinion that he will find a ready market once the tool people know he has them. Rockwell and Porter cable planes are coveted by carpenters and boat builders. A friend of mine who is a machinist said that making these are really not that hard with modern machines. The skil would be trickier as it would be a gound up build.

 

10

Machining isn’t too difficult if you have a machining center- you’d have to have a coupled feed to do the helix on a manual mill, but with a machining center you could program it pretty easily. I don’t have a metal machining center- my CNC is small, 2’x3’ built for wood, plastic and nonferrous metals. 

The price that the gentleman is selling at on ebay is really rather reasonable- it’s not as “pretty” as factory units- it looks like he programmed a large step over on the helix to save on machining time- that’s why it looks more rough than the factory units. Perfectly serviceable, though. When considering price, also consider materials cost- if he’s manufacturing those in M2 tool steel, you’re looking at around $50 for a 3" length of 2" diameter bar. Tool steel is quite expensive. To sell them at 2-3x materials is quite reasonable for a short run. 

I was thinking something more along these lines:

http://www.holbren.com/spiral-cutterhead/

But, if the desire is for a standard 1 piece cutterhead, I’ll see what I can find out there. I really do like to tinker far too much. :slight_smile:

 

-Michael

11

Spiral blades for a Skil are impractical.  The coast of sharpening them alone is enough to put a shaper who seriously uses a planer OFF.   Carbide don't need to be sharpened and HSS go a long time and many boards before they need to be replaced and or sharpened.  I've got four pair of HSS back-up.  Man that's a lot of flippin' boards.  The only paractical alternative is a "Grit Barrel" that doesn't go out of production.  Maybe Gene and Cleanlines would buy the first two spirals, after that you'd loose your A$$. PS Didn't mean to offend, but lots of guys have come on this site with the newest idea for s surfboard planer. A little late. They are becoming obsolete.     

12

 Take out the "clicker" install a washer, you're good to go.  If you like it stiff tighten the screw.  Mine are always set up loose.  My finger senses and determines the depth.

13

Thank you for the input. Please don’t misunderstand interest for nievete. I never said I was going to blindly go forward and try to make these things- hence why I’m here asking for opinions. As I said, I am not a board maker. Here’s my take on it, which brought me here in the first place- The largest market for the Skil 100 is the surfboard planing community. In research I’ve done online for the last couple days, I saw a common theme- there are thousands of board makers out there, short production, single artisan makers, people that doodle in their garage for their own use. Of these, there seems to be a majority that use a planer to shape- Skil 100, 653 Versa plane, some using the factory Hitachi, some using the Bosch and others using the Clark mod of the Hitachi. I’m sure some home guys are using other asian sourced machines, others hand shape, etc. So, there is a small market that utilizes these planers. From what I could find, there are few parts and mods available for the 100, or have been made available for these- for the most part, only PaulC’s modified shoe and the superchute dust chute, or whatever it was called. So, since I found one of these guys finally- I’ve actually been looking for one for years to tinker with- I chose to exhaust the possibility of manufacturing something that there is a need for but no source. I’m looking at a small niche market that few are exploiting that I may find something I could throw together and make marketable. I never said I was going to plow forward with cutterheads, etc- I’ve made some calls to manufacturers and shops to see what it would cost to manufacture, what minimum orders would be, etc to see if it’s feasible. 

Since starting this research, it’s become clear that it’s a losing battle. As with most hobbiest driven markets that I’ve seen, most people will clamor for a new or better product, but few will put the money out for what they desire. This can be seen in past posts by Paul about his modified shoe- it was a generally better product that increased usability, though he stated in a post that I found a while back that he had exhausted the supply and was choosing to not manufacture more, simply due to the lack of sales and difficulty in handling sales on a low profit item in relation to volume. He has then here spoken of grit barrels and the lack of marketable sales should he produce them precluding his outlay at the onset. Considering his far more intimate knowledge of the market, I can see this is the proverbail wrong tree to bark up. 

So, there you have it. I’m not looking to get rich, not looking for millions in sales- I’m 28 and working on making some more money, in whatever form that comes in, to augment the meager income from my woodworking shop. 

Thanks again for your input!

14

I agree.  And;  Accurate doesn't depend on their planers sales alone to sustain their business.  Nuts and bolts, dollars and sense.  Is what it all comes down to.  The grit barrels that were made a few years back by Stan Pleskuna and others have dried up and are wearing out.  I think you could sell a few right away, but fifty at $300 in a year;  I don't know. If I could find one or two that were in new condition I would scrounge up the money.  Even one would probably due me the rest of my life.  If a handshaper goes back and forth between blades and a grit barrel;  he's good .The barrel alone for a spiral would cost a small fortune in machining.  And then the blades???  Hate to be blunt, but phoenix02 is naieve.

15

I’ve done my share of replacement Skil parts like shoes and such, and have a +1 mil CNC resource to do them (they compete with Accurate on the fishing reels).    Recently I was going to make carbide grit barrels for Skil’s, but you can’t make less than 50 (the way the numbers crunched) and I needed to sell them within a year at over $300 each due to the initial investment.  I couldn’t take that risk personally, and wasn’t going to seek investors and risk someone elses money either.   If you have the machines and the time and are willing to risk in this economy, do it but don’t have big expectations.  If you have to go outside your own resources, it’s going to cost.  The production surf industry doesn’t use Skil 100’s so you’re looking at very low volume and hobby builders only.  I don’t mean to be negative to your ideas, but the window for marketing a viable shaping planer and making a profit was more than 25 years ago.

16

I .think you've got the idea.  There just isn't any money in it

17

to augment the meager income from my woodworking shop.  Everyone that I know think that woodworkers make a lot of money , Ha,Ha !!!

18

BLS has median income of woodworkers in the US at $28,000. There is a small handfull of folks that net six figures, but in general, we’re a poor bunch who loves what we do.

Hey, betcha some of you guys could understand that, huh? How long does it take to make a long board and what are people willing to pay for it? :slight_smile:

 

-Michael

19

On a Skil 100 planer the blades (knives) need to be adjusted in height to match the height of the height of the rear foot perfectly. A spiral cutter head sounds like a great idea, but the problem would be that you won’t be able to adjust the height of the spiral blades to match the rear foot. Take for instance the P.C. 653 or the 126 portaplane. They both have an adjustment that enables you to adjust the entire cutter head lower or higher to match the level of the rear foot. The skil 100, 676 or 190 do not have that capability. It’s a nice thought though, but highly unlikely that something can be designed with out a tremendous expense. It will be a losing indever.  As far as the clicker goes. For carpentry such as planing doors you need it, but it could be lightened up a bit and still keep the front shoe from slipping. I only use mine for shaping boards so I’ve adjusted it so that it moves very freely but I can still feel some slight clicking. It feels good that way to me. If you like it to be a nice smooth and free feel take out and replace the clicker with a 5/16 X 1/16 thick nylon washer. Use thread lock on the lever bolt, adjust the lever bolt so that it’s just very slightly snug and let the thread lock dry overnight before using. Don’t over tighten, it will tear up the nylon washer if you do. 

20

Hay Phoenix: Pete C’s (Peter Casica) modified front shoe for the Skil 100 planer was great. It’s a huge improvement for shaping surfboards. I bought three for my Skil’s. Then I was refurbishing and modifying this one for My friend Glen Kennedy of Kennedy Surfboards. So i called Pete  And he told me that I was buying the last one and that he probably wasn’t going to continue with manufacturing them any longer. It’s really to bad. I’d buy a couple of more if he was. If your interested in making some, he’s a really cool guy  you should contact and talk to him about it.