Small-guy fish help...

General Discussion
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Hi,

Sorry to start yet another fish-related thread, but i’d be grateful if you could help me out:

First, about me: I’m 33, 5’5", 130lbs, been surfing about 5 years, and consider myself an intermediate surfer. My everyday shortboard is a 5’10" JC SD3, and a 6’3" chilli rounded pin for bigger stuff.

I’m thinking of buying a board for the spring/summers here in New York. I surf in Long Island and the summers can get pretty small/flat to say the least. I’m not really a longboard kind of guy, but I want a board that will keep me going through till hurricane season arrives. I considered the …Lost RNF Quad, but it seems more like a performance fish, and if I’m in a ‘performance’ kind of mood I’ll just ride my shortboard. I want something a little more relaxed and cruisy…so, I’ve narrowed it down to a twin-keel fish (KG, Lis, Brom, etc).

Problem is, I’ve never ridden a fish. I’ve seen posts on here about what size fish to get for guys that are 180+ lbs and 6 feet tall. But what dims should I have in mind for a small guy like myself? 5’2"? 5’4"? 5’6"? width?

Help is appreciated,

Thanks!

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Hard to say without know exactly how you lke to surf, but you’re given a good overview.

Based on what you are saying and the size of your current boards, I’d be guessing around the 5’5" to 5’6" mark.

Don’t worry about them being advertised as “performance” boards - because of the extra width through the board and lower ricker, they are all a bit cruisey… a fish is a nice board to ride.

BTW, good luck getting your hands on a Lis fish :wink:

-Cam

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Hey SpecialK,

I’ve done a lot of fish for guys in your weight range. Most seem to like

the length around 5’2" or 5’3" to allow you to maintain authority over

the board. If a lot of pumping the board and driving down-the-line is

not your deal (focus is catching tons of waves) then a longer fish will

do well. For a 130 lb rider that would start at about 5’7" or 5’8".

Back in the day, stand-up fish were commonly 5’2" to 5’6" for guys

my size 155-160lbs (back then, lol) and fish 5’8" and above were rare.

The way they worked back then was quite good, they were quite different

from a lot of twin-keels of today, especially in the amount foam. The

lines they drew were different.

Hope this helps,

George

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cam,

thanks for your response…gives me a much needed point of reference. i’ve got my eyes on a steve brom 5’6" in the ‘for sale’ discussion board. i’m thinking it might be a good transition into the fish shape for me. based on what you said i’m convincing myself to buy it :slight_smile:

thanks,

kc

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george,

you bring up a good point with regard to control over board/pumping versus increasing wave count. since i have no experience with fishes, i’m just looking to maximize my wave count on the thing to get a feel for how to ride a fish shape. maybe once i get the hang of it (and if the style suits me) i can do what you’re suggesting and get a smaller fish for better maneuverability and control.

this is what i have my eye on, i think it should be ok for my purposes:

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/slow_carve/56Brom/

kc

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Funny coinkydink this thread as I am currently crawling around the floor w/ a pencil stub and a long sheet of white paper drawing up a 5’3" X 21" fish for my 5’3’ X 130-135 pound body.

Wondering what you would suggest George (as you’ve obviously been kinda fishy for a long time) in terms of amount of rocker for that size fish. That’d be the “old school” progressive type rocker, not the “modern” multi stage, rockered tail kind. I had a Mandala double bump quad a couple years ago that was 5’4". Had so much stuff going on w/ concaves within concaves etc that it was a bit hard for my squinty old eyes to get a clear impression of whatall in detail was going on rockerwise but a long straight edge said the total was 4 1/2 inches. Lot more that that old Lis .pdf floating around that has 3 1/4 inches on a 5’5". I liked the Mannyboard. It was fast and controllable and I pretty much never pearled but am wondering if a bit less might be a bit more in terms of fishness? I am leaving off all the multiple trick bottoms etc. Just a clean template, deep crack, soft round rails w/ slight bevel, maybe a bit of edge behind the keels. It will have some flex and flex keels (Derrick/run is gonna send me specs on the DVS flex keels on his board when he gets time)–that’s my trick part. Gotta have a trick part.

So anyway…rocker suggestions or comments or comments/suggestions in general?

Ya,you betcha, we are having fun now!

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…man, in a super small (lenght) you need a very low rocker…

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How low can you go??? Well, the Mandala 5’4" X 20 3/4 had 4 1/2 inches total rocker and it seemed to go well but it is the only fish I’ve ridden so nothing to compare with. I recently saw post that Shipman runs his personal fish with something like 2 1/2"??? I know it’s a lot personal preference and riding style. I’m fishing (hehhehe) for comments on ball park good numbers for a fairly old school stand up 5’3"

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Hey DrStrange,

I posted some numbers way back and also corresponded by PM with quite a few shapers about rocker

numbers. I have re-submitted the numbers here, sorry if it runs a bit long, but the explanation is quite

important to get the rocker just right…

True Classic 5’6" fish

N: 3-5/16

12: 11/16

24: 1/16

C: 0

24: 1/8+

12: 1/2+

T: 1-1/16- (where ‘+’ and ‘-’ are about 1/32")

Performance 5’6" fish

N: 3-13/16

12: 1

24: 3/16-

C: 0

24: 3/16

12: 5/8

T: 1-5/16-

Start with a horizontal line, find the halfway point, C, and spec the points: N and T are obvious. 12 means 12 inches from the nose or tail, and likewise for 24.

Best to use a long flexible stick, (spline) with good continuous wood grain. Floor molding strips work well, (those quarter round little wood strips that have no knots or wierd grain). Some use fishing pole blanks. I’ve used masking tape before but that took about 10 years to get my skills up. Better find a stick… …put weights on it. Do the front half separately from the rear.

The above numbers may seem a bit flat but this is what works for this length (I can suggest numbers for a longer fish). Rocker might get altered for thicker boards but most boards run about 2-1/4 thick to 2-3/8. I’m 170 lbs, and I have a couple 5’8" x 19-3/4 x 2-1/4 performance models that work quite well. I have a 5’7" that is great in bigger waves, it has the Vee hull. Most of these things have flat decks BUT pinched rails with very little vertical “sidewalls” especially at the water entry- kinda knifey.

…my suggestion is to start by making a 5’6" rocker template (female version, so it can fit to your boards) and then

decide how you want to scoot your 5’4" around. One bit of advice for true twin keels, they really do not benefit from any tail kick at all or flat-to-vee in the tail, they will just bog. You almost want to lay a straight edge along the last 20" of tail!

Bottom contour can run 3 ways and work quite well. Stevie/Stanley made them Flat-to-flat, and Slight belly-to-flat. Duff started with Flat-to-flat and later made some with concave-to-flat. Belik is all about concaves and started trenching a tunnel down the middle of his boards. I’ve met a lot of success with subtle concave (1/8") just ahead of the front foot and dead flat in the last 1/3 of the board.

Edges. Pavel used to joke: “it all works, everything works, that’s the problem”. I’ve seen sharp edge from nose to tail like Bunker and Mansfield rode, and they worked. I’ve seen Pendo do hard 45deg bevels for tucked rails and it worked. Belik uses chines all the time. I’ve seen Geppy have normal rails up front and hard edges for the last 2 feet and it worked. I’ve been doing standard round rails and slight beveled rails that transition to a hard edge Mid-Keel and they work.

So I guess the moral of the story is “pick your poison” (lol). Actually, just go with your instincts, your first inclination tends to be the correct approach.

Anyways, sorry for crapping-on, hope this helps.

George

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George,

Thanks for sharing all those details. I really appreciate all the experienced board designers and builders sharing their knowledge- one of the reasons I keep coming back to Swaylocks

Thanks Jim N

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Wow! Thank you for taking the time to post all that. Exactly the type of thing I was looking for. Golden!

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Drew rocker curve from those numbers. Looks good. Hope to get nearly as much flex in the tail as the difference betweent the “old” and the “new”. One of these days (soonish) it will get made and I’ll post up the results.

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BTW,

you may want to use that rocker gauge not only along the stringer, but off the stringer a few inches

or even out at the rail (still parallel to stringer, of course).

Look forward to the progress pics (someday soonish)!

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Will do. Lazy is as lazy does though. Being only a one every once in a great while type shaper, I’m having the foam company do a custom rockered glue up for about $10. Then take it from there. Less foam dust over the garage interior equals happier wife.

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Well, finished but untested. Didn’t really take enough out of deck for good flex as I started to get worried about paddling and catching waves. It does flex a little. The keels have nice snappy stiff flex. Colored part is PVC foam. The thickness flow looks a little odd because I had an ADD obsessive moment shaping a nice looking deck curve in the nose and lost track of the bigger picture. Funny thing is though, with the deck dished out a bit, pre-fins the balance point on the edge of my hand was right at the widepoint. Line down the deck was just a concept. No stringer so 5th layer of 4oz cloth I pulled out the cross fibers and made it into a band of roving down the center. Was thinking maybe a lot more flex than a stringer with more strength. Next step is to get some surf. Flat and windy today. Then work until sunday. Patience, Grasshopper…


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one more of the funny foil