Your right solo the pro-tour has dominated surfboard design, And corporate inputs dominate the pro tour. Costume shapers, instead of custom, that masquerade like peacocks dressed and designed by a cnc. Original thought is almost a thing of the past.
**“Shortboard or shortboard the term has been in use for fifty years now,
and has meant different things at different times. We have all shared
ideas for quite some time now… Take a step back and look at the big picture, and you’ll see it a bit more clearly. Not one place, one guy, one time” **
Here’s my understanding of surfboard history… this is something I wrote recently on bottom designs, which was read by one of the Campbell brothers, who responded to it quite favorably just this past week:
"The problem with discussing these different features is the fact that different shapers from different eras, or different parts of the world, have different names for the same features. This confusion is due in large part to the culture of surfboard design throughout history (but particularly in the mid to late ‘60s, when design ideas were freely shared within shaping circles), and the tendency of shapers in different parts of the world to simultaneously start working on similar design elements at the same time, but start referring to them by different names, or in some cases, using the same names to describe different designs. For example, vee bottoms have several different varieties – panel, rolled, reverse, spiral, inverted, concaved… and most of them can’t easily be traced back to a single inventor. Such is the case with many design features - there is great debate over who invented what, when, where, and the name it was given at the time. This is exactly the case with the various forms of vee bottoms – shapers in Hawaii, California, Florida and Australia all started working on variations of the vee bottom at about the same time, in an effort to push the performance envelope of boards at the time. Researching the history of the evolution of the vee bottom reveals numerous names like McTavish, Catri, Barnfield, Cole, Hynson, Takayama, Brewer, and others, all arising from a fog of innovation at about the same time."
Finally, let me also say that I hope the people following (and contributing) to this thread understand the value of this information. To have people here with first hand knowledge of the shortboard revolution discuss and debate the early days of the "short board" is... well... priceless.
nj surfer, You are oh so right the info here from Those that were in the trenches and doing the work are a great resource. The knowledge, experience and the willingness to share all that knowlage, is priceless.
Agreed this is more of a philosophical question than an argument,
To rephrase it would make more sense
As…
" Who invented the modern commercial & retail short board?"
In one aspect, credit would most certainly go to the creators of the media in which artisans (shapers, board manufactures)
were allowed the materials to make smaller surfboards, you see as from that point on,
it was only a matter of economics, and time for them to be created out a necessity.
Another aspect that befalls many is nothing existed before they were born,
the old question of “if a tree fell in a forest” the time before history was made or written on the subject.
The question will always persist in creating the question, and that question will be…
Short for who ?
Someone’s said it before, but the early short boards were evolving all over simultaneously. What worked in Aus or CA or on the US East Coast certainly would be different from what worked here in Hawaii specifically in bigger north side waves.
Greenough influenced McTavish who influenced Brewer. Lopez said it, and he was there.
I think Simon should be credited with what we have today as the modern short board, although the tear drop singles we rode from the late 60’s until then seemed to work just fine. Same for the twins, a lot of guys riding twins were happy until the 3 fin gave them a bit more control.
The short board was around before Captain Cook ever saw these islands, and we’ll never know how well they were ridden. The kids today are showing us that they can ride all over the wave with quite a bit of control, but we already knew that from the days we all had wooden paipos.
Donald Takayama was riding super short wood boards he built himself. Velzy saw him riding those in Waikiki when Donald was just a kid.
The next time I see George Downing, I’ll ask him. I’m sure he knows who was riding short boards in Hawaii way back in the day.
I think much of the claims and desperation to get credit stems from the money side of things. Folks had to build heroes to keep the thing going and with that some felt burned or wished they had thought of it.
I have told you all before–It was Bob Smith, Mr. X–Look at the cover of Art Brewer’s book–The picture of Bunker Spreckels, on the beach at Backdoor–that board was shaped by Bob Smith --Bunker was a friend and was kneeboarding when he first came to Hawaii, from California-----Bob shaped a board for Bunker to stand or kneeboard on–Look at the handles–Stop listening to all the other crap out there–I surfed Backdoor with Bob, and Bunker when Nat Young came out , and he was on a 9-0’ single–He borrowed Bob’s 6’8’ and came back out , shook his head and mumbled something–and left–Vinny Bryan, and Bob Smith made the deepest contributions to the short board revolution than anyone. We were cutting down 9’0" Weber pigs , in late 67 at Rocky Point when all of the Diff guys and the Plastic fantastic guys, were coming over–they were still shaping and riding 9’0’s–Look at the picture of McTavish at Sunset–the Deep V picture, when he was spinning out–That board was over 8 feet–Figure out the time line—Jock was riding for Brewer still, at 8-9 feet -Just amazed , at how people, that were never around , are still trying to re-write surfing history.-- No one rode Backdoor til mid '68, other than us–Bob Smith, Bunker, Vinny Bryan, Dana Nicely, Rick Value, myself etc- Hamilton had moved over, and was still on long boards–he lived in front of Pipeline, and Rick Value lived downstairs–Laird was in diapers–Billly took him out into the beach pool, above Pipeline, and pushed him around on a board…We all cracked up—Billy’s wife was not amused–The Australians were late comers, but as you know, the History is written by those that control the media. He abhors the media, but Bob Smith and I are still together, and I may try to get him here–(Good luck–He doesn’t think much of revisionist History) Mac
[quote="$1"]
''-- No one rode Backdoor til mid '68, other than us--''
[/quote]
Sorry to disappoint, but I was riding ''Backdoor'' before it had a name. It was simply going right at Pipline. I had not seen or heard of it being done, before I started doing it. The year was 1963. If you were not there at the time, how could you know what went before. I was riding one of those boards that aren't supposed to work at Pipe, a 10' 5'' full gun. I had the luxury of speed to burn.
[quote=“$1”]
The Australians were late comers, but as you know, the History is written by those that control the media. He abhors the media,
** well lets not go aus bashing let things flow as we see it all? for from the ausie angle it is all about the whole movment up the east coast at that time not one single person fark i built 5’- 6’ boards for every kid in town by 19 66
**
and so would have many other shapers around the world
but that has f##k all to do with this dscsion
**tell me if you are shaping boards wether its in early sixtys or now and the kid is 4’ and a fly shit and being restricted by the heap of shit hes been lucky enough to have. **
would you try to put him or her for that matter on a 10’ donger or attempt to get them on something more to suit?
[quote=“$1”]
the History is written by those that control the media
yes yes how very true
oh and by the way i am sure i have seen a pic of someone riding an 8’ board here in aus around 19 14 but so what
its the movement up the east coast from around 1966 -69 that has left the most indelibil mark on surfing full stop
i have had many conversations with midget on and around this subject and at no time has he indicated to me the he was alone?
why was there a fantastic plastic kevin platt model? why did he stay on the path of what became the dble ender?
** (****eventualy missnamed **egg)
i wet nursed him for the next twenty somthing years he wrote a lot of those magazine ramblings from my dinning table
things were changed by the time a lot of stuff hit the stands.
**
**
so right there things are going in different ways the tentacles are spreading fast’’ the crew bailing out of the city. dodging the draft
crist knows who they all were but good on them and so it was a big move
its the hi tales i want to hear hopefully there will be underground lore just as it was here
**so lets all keep our cool and let everything come out for here we dont hafta deal with an editor only a moderator haaa’’
**
** cheers huie
**
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**
Laird Hamilton was 4 years old in 1968. Kind of late to still be in diapers.
Horse.....DEAD. Whack...whack....whack....whack...whack...ect.
Huie brings up a good point, (I think, maybe-spelling). Guys were shaping boards for kids way smaller than the accepted norms dictated by the media. Who in there right mind would put a kid on a 10’ 0", (well my dad, but I hated it and wanted something shorter immediately- still wish I had the 'ole Del Cannon). Kids have always dictated what was cool in this sport, and us now vets should at least recognize that. The best example as of late is the board influence of Kelly, which in my opinion held surfboard design for the normal surfer back for at least 15 if not 20 years. Now that Kelly has matured, he is experimenting and the masses are too- probably because his no volume stuff doesn’t work as well for him as it used to. Kelly has been thee Messiah, cult leader, for quite some time, and his recognition is deserved, but he led a generation or two off the cliff of performance, or proformance or conformance, as it can be rightfully described.
Huie, I think makes a valid point, but I can only imagine if the history of the sport rested upon the penmanship of Sir Huie.
Also, I wouldn’t be too hard on macpac and his memory because its almost cliche to remember Laird running around almost unclothed or diapered along the sands of the North Shore. Funny I know Bob Smith, and never knew he shaped for BS, just an all around good guy who now likes to make loooong boards.
Bill_ I was there, but did not see you out, nor anyone-- Not to say you didn’t, as I didn’t live at Pipeline. People tried but it was basically really dangerous. We bodysurfed it a lot, along with Off the Wall, and also TRIED to surf it–So did Jock, and others, but all came to the same conclusion–Wrong equipment, and dangerous-Hell, we even tried to ride Sandy Beach on longboards–The Shorebreak, not off the point… Maybe people rode it at 4 feet, but not real Backdoor–If it had been ridden at size, it would have made headlines–Look what Phil’s picture did … As far as the thread, I believe what many people might be refering to (I am not claiming, just suggesting), is that people are confusing 2 categories-- “Short boards”, and “Mini-guns”–Brewer was at the head of the class with mini-guns, and maybe McTavish also–So was Hynson, Diff, Aipa, etc. Larry McIIhenny (sp.?) really impressed me with many of his boards-Some of the best workmanship out there… It was all response to watching earlier guys ride legitimate 8’ surf on small equipment, for the times… If you really want the birth of the “short board”. go back and check out Val Ching and the boys on Paipos, at the Wall in Waikiki. I watched them when I lived in town… Standing up, and turning on small plywood paipos. Those paipos go way back into Hawaiian culture, so some of this thread is mute. I believe there was a story , maybe in Surfer’s Journal on him, or maybe another publication.
Everyone of a certain age was THERE when the sizes really started changing, and will remember that point in History from their own perspective…Sorry to raise everyones’ hair off of their necks, but I have seen too much misinformation flying around. Also, part of the problem on my part, for not respecting the different people , around the globe, who were also frustrated with logs, and were actively trying to make changes. Hats off to all… and forgive me for being a bit myopic-Thanks
''Real Backdoor'' now that's a concept. That winter There was pleanty of 8 to 10 foot Pipeline. It was on those days, using my far right takeoff point, that I was sometimes too deep to make the ''normal'' left, that I would change direction and go right. As I said, I had the luxury of a blindingly fast board. I could get away with things other riders could not. Mid week it was not uncommon to have 8 foot pipe with only 8 to 10 guys out. Weekends were a different story. I rarely surfed it on weekends because the head count would jump to 20 or 30. A real zoo. Most equipment, and riders were not up to the demand of that break. The house our crew had was on KeNui Rd. across from Kammie's. The house is now owned by Ken Bradshaw. So, never doubt that I was there, or that I did the things I've stated. It didn't seem like a big deal, at the time, just different. In 1962 a friend of mine came back from that winter on the NS, with tales of a fellow that went left at Waimea, on a legit 20 foot day. THAT was a big deal!
siimmons, velzy and greenough made sub-8' boards (stand up kind) long before '68.
siimmons, velzy and greenough made sub-8' boards (stand up kind) long before '68.
You need to consider other causal factors into why the shortboard revolution happened. For example: Remember the “generation gap”, as a child in a surfing family, we did not want to ride our parents boards, and we did not want to surf SanO, we wanted to surf Newport Point, and everywhere else that broke hard like Gravels, or Southside Seal, or even Aliso, like after the rains of "69. The Del Cannon and the Hoble or the Wardy didn’t work for that but the Bill Wetzel did. My boards were small because I was a kid, and if my dad wanted to go surfing, he had to take us kids, mostly just to give my mom a break. That’s how it worked in my family, and yeah the only thing I read back then was Surfer and Surfing Magazines, but I always checked the pictures in the National Geographic’s.
You need to consider other causal factors into why the shortboard revolution happened. For example: Remember the “generation gap”, as a child in a surfing family, we did not want to ride our parents boards, and we did not want to surf SanO, we wanted to surf Newport Point, and everywhere else that broke hard like Gravels, or Southside Seal, or even Aliso, like after the rains of "69. The Del Cannon and the Hoble or the Wardy didn’t work for that but the Bill Wetzel did. My boards were small because I was a kid, and if my dad wanted to go surfing, he had to take us kids, mostly just to give my mom a break. That’s how it worked in my family, and yeah the only thing I read back then was Surfer and Surfing Magazines, but I always checked the pictures in the National Geographic’s.
As I stated before, the shortboard revolution was more about a change in performance than who rode what when. That revolution was about the way we looked at surfing … about how we approached wave riding. I don’t care what Velzy or Simmons or anyone else rode prior to '67. The real revolution was in the minds of the surfers at the time. A new approach to wave riding was the real revolution. The boards changed in response to what was happening in the water … period. Since '67 we have continued to evolve. The basis of todays surfing was not some vee bottom built in Brookvale in '67. It was a new mentality derived from a number of influences that existed at the time that evolved into what we have today. Many of us have participated in that evolution and no one deserves all the credit. BTW anyone who was establishing new ground for the credit was doing it for the wrong reason. It was a passionate desire for better performance … and still is. But again it happened first in the minds and in the water not in the shaping room.
Thanks Greg…great post. I was going to touch on this earlier, but you said it better than I would have. No one looked a board and said, " I want to shape a board like this so I can invent the next thing"
Cheyne told me one time that the way his zap came about was because he asked Geoff to shape him something he could get up, stand in one place and do his thing. He was envisioning how he wanted to surf and asking his shaper to make it for him. I’m sure Simon thought the same when he shaped one for himself, M.R. as well and Skip Frye also… and etc. I think Florida twin fins worked better than the M.R. style back in the day. First time I ever saw a twin fin outside of a magazine without a pin tail on it was when I moved to California in 81. Granted…I did love my Hurley triple wing swallow.
We really end up with the entire reason Swaylocks exist…to help surfers make something from their own vision they can ride. We are coming out of 35 years of others telling surfers what they should ride and then marketing that label to them. If there is another revolution and I think we are likely in the beginning now ( in more ways than surfing ) it will be surfers wanting to toss away guidelines and create something that makes them happy or gives them their own feeling.
The movement was not shapers. The movement was surfers. The whole idea of shapers being gurus was just someone’s marketing ploy or the way certain shapers kept a following. The best shapers were just surfers who wanted to make boards like they wanted to ride. Some started doing it for others and reputations were born. It all works. Just depends on how you want to surf. I think today we often confuse symmetry of surfboards with functionality.