So im sitting at Haleiwa the other day and see my niece come out of the water and she walks up to me and says “hi uncle can you fix this for me?” I look at her board and theres a crack that runs from the rail to just past the stringer… I say sure no problem. I brought her board home to let it dry out. Today i inpected the board to see exactly what needed to be done and found that there are soft spots all over the deck and up and down each rail. DOH!
She doesnt know…or is too ashamed to tell me how the damage happened so i dont know if the board acually buckled or she got run over. It doesnt appear to flex at the crack so im thinking maybe its from a fin. Anyway since the deck is partially delaminated im wondering how im going to get a good bond with the fiberglass? Originally I was thinking of just doing 2 layers of 4oz over the cracked area but now im not too sure if thats going to hold up…any ideas on how to fix this?
oh delam…thats tricky, this might not help…but ive tried the drilling holes thing(someone will shurley tell you to do this)…then injecting resin,that diddnt seem to work very well…at least not in my attempt…i just recently had one wher i decided to try a different way ,i ripped off any loose glass ,and probally some extra,patched it all up,its pretty ugly but i think so far its held up… OOPS NEVERMIND DID YOU MEAN ITS ONE OF THOSE SOFT BOARDS? I GUESS NOTHING I SAID REALLY APPLIES TO THIS,JUST FORGET I EVEN SAID ANYTHING.
If this is a Sof-Deck or one of the overseas composite boards, watch out with the poly resin! Interiors of those boards are styrofoam, and the styrene in poly resin will utterly and completely dissolve the core.
If this is a Sof-Deck or one of the overseas composite boards, watch out with the poly resin! Interiors of those boards are styrofoam, and the styrene in poly resin will utterly and completely dissolve the core.
Oops I guess i didnt communicate correctly that its a regular poly board.
The problem or actually problem(s) is that there is delaminated areas all over the deck…about a 2ft long area on each rail and multiple delaminated areas on the deck with a crack that runs from the rail to the stringer right in the middle of the nightmare.
If it was just a single delaminated area I would just do the recomended resin fill with a syringe but the delaminations are smaller areas all over the deck… Ripping off the glass over all of the delamed areas and reglassing would be a major project…ohhh lord what have i got myself into…
I’m afraid you’ve gotten yourself into something of a nightmare. I hate doing work for young relatives, nieces and such. Trying to get out of the ding biz and such, but there are the family and close friend jobs you can’t get away from.
At this stage of the game, it’s either rip off glass, fill and reglass, get a router and some sheet foam and basicly add foam over much of the deck then glass ( which’d be the ‘right’ way to do it ) , or perhaps the easiest would be to get her/make her another board - the expense might be a little higher but the time involved would be quite a lot less, plus I have a feeling this is one of those repairs that’d never stop.
One quick and dirty way to attack it, that’ll be palliative but not curative - a large deck patch that covers the whole affected area. Minimum of two layers of 6 oz, wrapped around the rails like a cut lap. That, especially if you fill the very worst of the delams, that’d hold up for a couple months to a couple years, but it’ll be heavy and such, not too pretty either.
The other question is, how good a board is this, anyways, and how old is the niece? If it’s a ‘kid’s first beater board’, picked up very used for short money, it’s not worth it to do much, y’know? Look around for another board, cheap and mebbe a little better than this one was to begin with. If it’s not a beater bought cheap, well… “Listen, ______, how would you like to help ol’ Uncle J.T. make you a new board??”. That’d let you get away with the quick and dirty temporary fix I mentioned above and take your time about making a new one. At worst, she gets some pens and such and does really silly graphics on it and at best she actually gets into it and learns/does some real work on the stick.
Good luck, man…like I said, I really hate doing repairs for family.
Ahh yes thanks Doc! Thats the answer im looking for. Ill just go for a temp fix and tell her hey if this fails let me know and uncle will shape you a new one. Should save me alot of time just to shape a new one than to spend hours and hours trying to save the beater board.
Exactly, man. She has something to use while you and she pick out blanks, figure out the shape and she comes up with some sort of ‘ohmigawd, only a girl would like that’ graphics. Hate to say it but I suspect it’s the only way you’re gonna come out of it all well.
Howzit J., Just how many delams are there? I’d still do the resin fill and use a plastic bag or pillow case filled with sand to push the delams back in place. Don’t forget to put wax paper between the bag and the borard to keep the bag from sticking to the resin. Aloha, Kokua
Howzit J., Just how many delams are there? I’d still do the resin fill and use a plastic bag or pillow case filled with sand to push the delams back in place. Don’t forget to put wax paper between the bag and the borard to keep the bag from sticking to the resin. Aloha, Kokua
Well theres quite a few. Both rails and delam spots from the tail 2/3s up the whole deck and the areas that arent fully delaminated are soft. I think to do a proper repair id have to peel of 2/3 of the glass off the deck and re-glass the whole thing.
I recently did a LB restoration with the worst delam I’ve ever seen; 4 ft of the entire deck (rail to rail). I first marked off the area out to where there was still a good foam/glass bond. Cut off the deck with a cutting wheel in a dremel (1/32 kerf). Routered out the rotten foam down 1". I then got some “pour foam” (2 lb. density) mixed a batch and spread it in the cavity. This stuff expands to 4 times its size, and I then planed it down to just below the original foam height. Put a layer of 6 oz cloth over the bare foam and laminated (the pour foam is light brown). I then poured a heavy layer of cabosil thickened, white pigmented lam resin over the cloth and replaced the deck section. Taped and weighted it down with sandbags until cured. Reglassed the deck section with 4 oz. overlapping the cut lines. Not really as much work as it sounds, and the high density foam won’t easily dent. Slightly more weight, but a lot less than using filler in the delam voids.
I have fixed/restored a few banged boards through the years. It’s true that it can be more work to fix a badly damaged board than it would be to just shape/make a new one. So the question becomes; is this board worth the effort?
Another consideration. You say that “Both rails and delam spots from the tail 2/3s up the whole deck and the areas that arent fully delaminated are soft. I think to do a proper repair id have to peel of 2/3 of the glass off the deck and re-glass the whole thing.”
So maybe, instead of screwing around with trying to patch it up piecemeal, maybe just strip it down completely to bare foam, sand it, and do a completely new glass job?! If the bottom is still in good shape you might be able to get away with re-glassing only the deck, but it would be tricky at best.
In any event, I doubt your material expense would be much more, and it is likely the amount of time spent and frustration level would definitely be less!
Is the board big enough to undergo this process and still end up with a suitable board for your niece?
I have fixed/restored a few banged boards through the years. It’s true that it can be more work to fix a badly damaged board than it would be to just shape/make a new one. So the question becomes; is this board worth the effort?
Another consideration. You say that “Both rails and delam spots from the tail 2/3s up the whole deck and the areas that arent fully delaminated are soft. I think to do a proper repair id have to peel of 2/3 of the glass off the deck and re-glass the whole thing.”
So maybe, instead of screwing around with trying to patch it up piecemeal, maybe just strip it down completely to bare foam, sand it, and do a completely new glass job?! If the bottom is still in good shape you might be able to get away with re-glassing only the deck, but it would be tricky at best.
In any event, I doubt your material expense would be much more, and it is likely the amount of time spent and frustration level would definitely be less!
Is the board big enough to undergo this process and still end up with a suitable board for your niece?
Well to answer your last question…its borderline…maybe even leaning towards not worth the trouble. The board looks okay at first glance…but when you examine it close up theres…well…
Looking at the bottom of the board there is what appears to be a double concave that runs from the tail 2/3s of the way up BUT the stringer is 1/8 high popping out like the foam caved in or the guy who shaped it left a high stringer. The guy who shaped the board is a known local shaper and i cant imagine he would leave a high stringer like that…but who knows…the only other possibility is maybe the the foam somehow shrank??? Dunno shrug
Multiple delams and soft spots on the deck side and on the rails.
Like i said id have to strip the glass off the deck and probably have to take at least 1/8 off the deck and re-laminate…lots of trouble for a board thats on its last legs…add to that id lose 1/8-3/16 thickness on a board thats already only 2 1/4 thick
The only thing im sure of is that this is a big can of worms…
That’s it exactly, man. There comes a time when enough is enough, especially when it’s not that great a board in the first place.
I have, for instance, in my repair rack right now a buckled triple stringer hobie. It’s proof positive that stringers contribute Jack to the strength of the board - stringers buckled while the foam stayed intact, though it may be those that triggered the massive glass loss in that area. In any event, it’s POS new-ish hobie, made by stewart, glassing sucks, I have to get the buckle out of it and glass the bottom where it’s lost glass and get cute elsewhere. And even if I do an absolutely perfect job, it’ll be a POS hobie anyhow.
if it wasn’t for a very good friend, who I owe big favors to including sewing my face together, I’d suggest he make a table out of it. I’m not gonna win on this job, y’know? Though mebbe I’ll take pictures as I go for a little show and tell.
Sometimes ya win. Sometimes ya lose. And sometimes there ain’t no winning in the game.
Still you know its difficult to tell the little girl its beyond repair…ill start looking for a 2nd 6’3"R and do a temp fix anyway and try to come up with a good story.
I still have my first board, the first one I owned as opposed to the ones I used, and I’ll have it as long as I have anything. But… and this may be the way to do it with her… it’s ‘resting’ now. So full of memories that I don’t dare risk it.
That’s interesting, I have been thinking of trying the pour foam to fill in a large delam cavity myself. I was concerned about it continuing to outgas and/or expand for a long time to come. Also wasn’t sure about compatibility with poly resin. Did you encounter issues with either?
Pour foam is urethane and is compatible with poly resin. You have a 3-4 minute working time, and it is cured hard in about 15. There isn’t any outgassing after curing, but the foam is very porous (up to 1/16" holes) due to the chemical reaction. It actually forms a smooth skin on the surface, but that is cut away when you shape it. Partially fill the pores prior to laminating with a heavy mix of lam resin and cabosil. You don’t have to fill it smooth; the holes will act as anchors and improve the cloth/foam bond. You just want to fill to reduce the amount of resin during lamination.
Don’t try injecting this stuff, it won’t work well.
Great, thanks for the info. I’m going to try it. This deck has delamed twice and had lots of resin/cabosil poured in. Once by a surf shop and once by yours truly. Its 3 or 4 lbs heavier than it used to be. I’m going to route that stuff out, try the pour foam, and reglass.
I don’t need to do the entire deck only a 3’ section or so (its a 9’ board). So there will be a transition there of pour foam to the blank. Hope that doesn’t cause problems in the fiture but it will be no worse than it is now. I would give up on the board but I learned to surf on it and really like it.
What sort of place carries pour foram, marine suppliers?
In SoCal, Cystaliner Corp (949) 548-0292. They only have the 2 lb density. US Composites in West Plam Beach, FL will mail it (www.uscomposites.com), and they have all densities. I wouldn’t go further than 4lbs. You have to plane this stuff down or use a very coarse surform. It sands like lam resin. It also bonds very strong to the blank, and anything else for that matter. The 4 lb stuff is used for molding duck decoys, so it’s pretty tough. If you have any left in the cup before it goes off, pour some 1/4" x 4" strips on wax paper. It will expand and be colored just like freshy baked dinner rolls; make up a plate of 'em and have some fun.