If you can, go with panels with woolrock instead of eps, far better acoustic material. Very common in europe don’t know in USA :
Reverb, if you are going to build from scratch, just build a normal room with insulated walls. You could probably use standard wall insulation material. We used a fiber type that comes wrapped in paper here when we did our small AV studio, but that was a long time ago. Just stuff that between the inner and outer walls. Then build another building around that with the same walls. The down side is that you have the cost of 2 buildings instead of one.
We’ve had to lower the noise from the newer power plants we’ve built here, so we build an insulated building around a jet turbine that we use to create electricity, then there is a second building around that. There is enough room for you to stand between the 2 buildings. So you enter the outer building, close the door, then you can access the turbine or generator sections once you are inside. If I can find a photo, I’ll post it.
I googled stone wool and that looks like the stuff we put between the inner and outer walls for the sound studio. Good thing about this stuff is the higher temperature rating.
Howzit Reverb? Long time.
What Sharkcounrty said about the is gap is the answer. I’ve worked on a few recording studios over the years and we build completely isolated free standing rooms that touch nothing else. Sound heard or not can transmit through most materials (at least the soundwaves do) so the air gap gives the transmision a chance to die before it goes through an abutting material. In buildings, soundboard is used with a “resiliant channel” shaped like a flattened U is screwed to the soundboard and then drywall is screwed to that. It creates the small air gap between materials. The panels you want to use are a great start. Create an air gap and then mount whatever material to that via a second wall or use the channel. The ceiling needs the same treatment. If it is a raised foundation you could probably get away with heavily insluating it. Sound will still transmit through the sandwiched panels. The air gap is crucial. Good luck, and keep making those beautiful Eggs!
One need not go to the extremes implemented for recording studios if you’re just building a shaping shack. The frequencies that are the most problematic are in the bass and sub bass range. Roughly 250hz and down. These will actually transmit through a solid structure like walls or floors. Since the worst noise you might create is a from a planer, I’d say the wall within a wall method isn’t really necessary if you’re starting from scratch rather than modifying an existing structure. Rock wool is a good insulator, but so is foam. The whine of a planer is in the mid to upper mid frequency range so you want to avoid leaks via windows, doors, and vents more than worry about thick walls and the like. Standard 2x6 walls and 2x10 rafters filled with rock wool or foam insulation will be enough. Another thing is that bass frequencies travel the farthest and as the frequency increases it’s less so. For example, whales and elephants communicate over long distaces via sounds too low for humans to hear.
Of course, if you have a big stereo rig in your shaping room and like to listen to hiphop, dubstep, or reggae, you might want to spend a little more on building materials.
In some applications of the “room within a room” concept, there is actually music or some type of white noise played within the air gap of the outer room as to mask any sound emanating from the inner room. Might be overkill here, but getting to zero decibels outside might also be unrealistic. You could try and camouflage the sound into something that is more normal (i.e. acceptable) to your neighbors. Tell them it’s a home theater or something.
A high pitch tone will transmit as well as a low tone but most people don’t hear that as well as a bass tone. They are however both at the apex of the soundwave just at opposite ends.
Hi,
The box in a box concept will be the most expensive solution…
A “simple” way to have a good sound reduction would be to put some ruber panels or cork on the floor (if your not on ground level) + wood.
For walls, vegetal insulation panels in 60 - 80 mm glued on walls and ceiling + wood panels as walls and you should be fine.
An example of those panels properties:
It should looks like that:
I had a set-up like this but with 40 mm vegetal panels on walls, ceiling and floor in a 2*2 m room and I decreased sound from 60dB to barely audible sound in front of the room door.
It’s close to the room in a room concept but simpler than “real” studio grade stuff.
The less contact you’ll have between the inner wall panels (wood or drywalls) and the outer walls (the building walls) the more you’ll be able to decrease the noise.
Also, all noisy equipment such as air extrating system sould be hanged with ruber rings to reduce vibrations on walls.
The “only” noise left is the planer, but with a set-up like that it shouldn’t be louder than a vacuum cleaner.
Gd luck !
the sandwich panel works well. even better if you do it in double layers with an air gap. between layers.
Not when it comes to distance, which I’ve already spoken of. Low frequency sounds travel farther. It’s a fact. Lows will propagate through structures as well, where high pitched frequencies do not.
This makes no sense. We are talking about noise, and how to contain it within a building. Typical human hearing range is 20hz to 20khz. This is known as the audible frequency spectrum. There is no “apex”. As people age, their high frequency hearing diminishes. People exposed to loud noise over long period lose hearing in a critical part of the spectrum that is known as the “2k notch”. It affects the ability to hear speech, especially in noisy settings.
Old carpet between the studs .
Double sheetrock overlapping the seams .
No sound outside …
Sammy A, there is an apex to the soundwave. Picture a sine wave like on an oscilloscope. There is a high and a low to each curve. What I said was a direct quote from an acoustical engineer I’ve worked with. And yes, mostly the high highs go unheard by most humans.
True. A sound wave represented on an oscilliscope will present as a curve with relatively equal variation above and below the zero line. But, you are applying this idea completely wrong. You referred to the audible spectrum, which is not the same as a “sound wave”. Not in the slightest way.
While I’m not an acoustical engineer, I am an audio professional who has studied the science of sound and the application of it for over 40 years. While you may be quoting this person you know verbatim, you do not understand what he was talking about.
That’s okay Sammy, I’m done pissin’
By the way, the staggered stud wall is also called a party wall and sound DOES transmit through them.
Yeah, but they are a compromise between standard wall and “box inside a box” building. In conjunction with some of the other suggestions here, should produce a quiet enough shop for the neighborhood. Fumes might be another issue, haha!
Hi,
Concerning the fumes, a good torin air extracting system in a soundproof box with an activated carbon filter should do the job.
I also would be interested to have examples of what “pro” or semi-pro glassers use as air filters.
For general purpose (organic solvent, weak acids, etc.) “simple” activated carbon filters are OK, the only cases where we have to use activated carbon soaked in chemical reactive solutions is for heavy acids or very nasty stuff like mercury fumes etc.
So, do u guys use any air filtering system ?
Z.
…hello Lemat; I ll check the price for the wool rock here.
-Sharkcountry, yes, I know about the increased cost.
-Tblank; so would I use the isopanels (20cm thick is pretty good) as main walls then make wood frames an attach them to these walls, letting one inch of gap then drywalls? or should I put rock wool or like that in that air gap? Thanks
-SammyA, one point to consider is that with all those open gardens, with no so much traffic, you really hear the noise; even more towards night; so do you say that the gap is not necessary at all in that condition? Also, my F30 is really loud when you hit the blank.
What to do with the windows?
-Zourite, regarding floor and cork isolation, I do not understand the difference between to be in a ground level or do not…
Never heard about vegetal panels; what about MDF panels?
-GregGriffin; I will use these EPS panels so no studs I think.; I see that your room have drywalls, so all these other things behind?
Hello Reverb, yes what you said about the second wall. And, no you don’t have to fill the air gap. If you want, use soundboard on the inside wall instead of drywall. It may be a bit less expensive. You can paint the soundboard to seal the fibers in it. Good Luck!
The difference between being on floors and on ground level is the need or not to be quite regarding people beneath you. If there’s no one to be annoyed on the floor below, no need to get special sound-proofing on tht floor.
The vegetal panels are the equivalent of rockwool panels but made from cellulosis. There’re much easier to handle since they don’t itch and are safer for your lungs.
MDF is more a cheap plywood equivalent than an insulating material. But mdf is very heavy and not solid, the best alternative to plywood is OSB. We use OSB panel to build indoor climbing wall at home and at my former club and it holds good.
The goal would be to have a sound proofing material (vegetal or rockwool panels) then a OSB or drywall “fake-walls” where you can put all your stuff.
Z.