Achieving the “mayonaise” consistancy of a spackle / water mix kinda eludes me. So in an attempt to put some numbers to the mix I took 4 oz. Dap Fast n’ Final Spackle and mixed 1.5 oz. bottled water to it and it spread nicely…
Completely sealed a 6’0" x 22 x 2.5 without a drop left over.
Anyone else actually measure their spackle mix? What’s your ratio??
Thanks,
~Brian
Geeez,I dunno.
I do know that the Red Devil lt.wt. stuff is the lightest I’ve used.Almost powdery…Geeez,if that makes any sense ?
H
Hi Herb,
I’ll have to try the Red Devil… I bet it’s manufactured with less water content than the DAP and is packed powdery.
Thanks for the info!
~Brian
Did the Red Devil lightweight stuff yellow after glassing? Later on? Someone let me know before I glass this epoxy job. I thinned with a smidge of water for spreadability. Looks ottally white right now but says on the container “if used for exteior work must be painted over”…maybe that is just for weather protection more than UV?
Unfortunately,
It all yellows.
Use de-mineralized h2o.This will reduce the yellowing and the speed that it yellows.
Or
PAINT over the spackle…it’s just that simple.
Herb
Yes less fluids in the mix is correct.
But…
It also contains a type of microsphere/ballon,this combo makes it light.
Herb
I figured as such…“demineralized water”…in other words distilled water.
Yup, figured I’d try a spackle fill instead of micro/epoxy seal just to have done it…somewhere in another thread there was mentioned a test was conducted on adhesion for different methods of sealing (paint, spackle, epoxy/Q cell, and no seal). I was always a proponent of the epoxy/q cell but I read that the spackle wo? Hmmmm.
Oh well I can always paint it whilte or even opaque glass it…thanks for the word.
That’s my thinking too…
Check this out from the forum on Stretch’s site. Posted by a guy named Dave.
Sounds like Dave works at the factory…
good question. most shapers using eps will skip this step. using a spackle compound, putty mix, slurry, etc… to “seal” an eps blank is something that allows the board builder to do several things:
+ fill any void spaces or porous openings in the initial shape.
+ allows for a fine tuned finish for better airbrush, aesthetics and clean shape just how stretch wants it.
+ helps control the saturation point of the resin/cloth matrix to get better adhesion to the foam and allows the proper amount of glue to be utilized. no venting or air bubbles or back fill in the lamination/hotcoat process.
it is safe to say that not everyone does this. in fact it’s seen as kind of a pain in the ass to anyone who’s been using pu foam for such a long time. the new eps technology like the compression molded tightly fused marko foam blanks we use are light years beyond the block foam eps blanks we used to cut and glue up manually since the 80’s. marko’s foam is so good that you could get away without the putty step depending on the density you are using. it makes such a difference in the quality of the final product though that we still utilize this step in each eps/epoxy board we do. we love making hte best boards we can. cutting corners kinda sucks.
I'm with you guys on this. Bit of a learning curve for an old dog like me, but my mind is open.
The answer to a nice finish is a good sanded shaped finish. I’ve been glassing clear personals without a spackle job. 2# eps foam shapes out really well these days. If I was going to do some tint color work I would spackle with mud. I have also used micro balloons when spackling color. The strongest and lightest boards have been glassed straight up. Keep it simple
Bump for relevance…
Other threads on the front page are talking about this now
I read here about home made spackle by mixing microballoons with white acrylic based paint. I tried it using KILZ brand white acrylic paint and it worked fine although it wasn't as light and dusty while sanding as the out of the bucket light weight spackle. It clogged my drywall screen a bit.
I have tried peel testing samples of Spackle directly on EPS foam and the acrylic based spackle seems to bond well. EPS foam peeled apart from itself more than separated from the spackle. It also adds a bit of toughness to the lighter densities before glassing.
It is not as tough however as the epoxy/microballoon mix.
The Gesso additive is an interesting idea. DAP lists Calcium Carbonate (limestone) as a major ingredient in spackle.
I wonder if you could mix in a little Calcium Sulfate (plaster of paris, Ag. gypsum) to adjust consistency for application and stiffness when hardened/cured?
Red Devil One Time is the spackle you want if you do want to use this brand. It's nice and light! They have cheaper spackle as well but it's like rubber.
I used the Behr low luster sealer to thin the spackle (DAP) on the last board I sealed. It seemed to dry faster and it had a “crisper” feel when dry. Need more tests, but it seems better than thinning with water or futures.
jmoto--- How did it sand? I've been a poly type my whole life but just recently spackled my first two EPS blanks. Everything went well, but they did turn yellow. Hard tap water with lots of minerals. Should have read this thread first. Going to use acrylic next time. The painter at the glass shop is going to paint with a blue and yellow plus white. Should get rid of the yellowing. That Bear Acrylic works well for so many other things. I don't see why it wouldn't work for thinning spackle. As John found though; too much acrylic will gum up your screen when sanding. I thinned mine to about the thickness of mayo. It spread easy with a hard plastic squeege. If spackle's good enough for Stretch it's good enough for me.
I thought it sanded really well. …best so far out of futures or water. Water seemed to be the slowest and softest, futures was better, but the Behr stuff seems to be the fastest drying and yielded a stronger filler. I had some left over on the squeegee and it was harder to break up, so I was thinking the acrylic in this Behr sealer is stronger (less reduced, maybe higher acrylic content?) I need to test it some more to see if the drying times are faster. I did 2 coats on the deck because of the artwork I was going to add. I had a fan blowing in the board and was able to add a second coat in about 2 hours (both coats mixed to mayo consistency). I then let the board sit over night before the first lam coat.
I can see that Killz mixture would be a
little harder to sand. I think there is some form of vinyl or something that
adds flexibility to the paint, good for paint, but makes it hard to sand.
I’m going to do a plain white board next to see if it yellows more than the
others.
...also, the best squeegee I found is a piece of hydro turf (eva foam). I had some scrap from a SUP pad and made a 10" squeegee. you can bend it to fit the contors of the rail and get a near perfect coat of sealer. just rinse it out when your are done, as the eva absorbse the spackle a bit and can get crusty.
For quick dry spackle I've heard of someone using denatured alcohol as a thinner.
when spackleing boards used to be one of my jobs i would use distilled water and rubbing alcohol to thin the spackle to a whipped cream Constancy
work good for me
oh and if you use a sponge on the rails correctly after you squeegee the board there is no sanding needed when the board is dry
Distilled water is key… not “spring water”… unless you like a yellow or even slightly pink board. If the board is finish shaped properly, one coat does the trick.
But… I’ve found if you have a lot of deep bead pullouts, the first coat goes on fast, and straight out of the tub. Just slap it on and scrape it off with the spreader, leaving nothing to sand. It will dry quickly. Then I thin the next coat, leaving almost nothing to sand… literally a “wipe” with 120 does the trick.
Guesso is the ticket for doing art on top of it, but not needed under a clear lam. (Thank you Atomized)