hey guys, i just finished my alaia and i used a marine spar varnish i got at lowes, i put 4 coats on,and sanded in between coats. its been like 4 days and the varnish has still gotten really hard,its not really sticky but ,it scraps really easy. i can use my fingernail and scrap it off. is this just how it is??? i have never used it before,it seem water tight.,but am i just going to have to baby it out of the water??? any tips,should i cut it with anything to help it harden???
Howzit boozeesurf, sounds like the varnish wasn’t totally dry and hard between coats. I have had sopts that didn’t set up hard and would resand the area and reapply varnish. Some times it would work the first time but some times I would have to resand and reapply several times before I could get it to dry and harden. Only thing I could figure was it had to be from contamination, and I wasn’t sanding deep enough to get it out. But in the end I would finally get it right. But for the whole board not to get hard then you needed to let it dry longer betweencoats. Minimum time is 24 hrs and in a humid climate 48 is minimum and even longer is better. should have never applied 4 coats and you should have noticed it wasn’t getting hard after first coat. Would say that you now need to remove all coats and sand down, let dry really good and then start the process over again and try the finger nail scrape ( test piece of same wood if possible or some wheres that won’t be noticable) before sanding and applying next coat. Take your time and don’t rush . Aloha,Kokua
To speed up the curing time of varnish buy a quart can of Japan drier.Sold at Lowes,Home Depot.Follow the directions.Don’t go nuts with it as the varnish will turn
milky.How this will work with hardware store varnish,I don’t know.Read the cans.Epiphanes and Interlux Schooner # 96 are great gloss varnishes.
I work a lot with varnish in home building. Great stuff, but it takes forever to dry. I’ve had doors take weeks to fully cure, even when left outdoors in the sun.
Thin coats are best. Don’t apply the next coat until first one is dry and hard.
The easy cure for where you are now at is to wipe down the board with a soft cloth and paint thinner. That will dissolve the top soft layer. Leave it in a warm dry place for at least a week. Lightly sand it smooth and apply the last coat with some Japan dryer mixed in. Follow the directions on the side of the can for the mix ratio. Don’t pour the mixed varnish back into the can with the fresh, or it will gum up the new. For the final sanding, I like 0000 steel wool better than sand paper. Don’t apply any varnish after the steel wool, or you will get tiny little rust stains from whatever steel wool was left on the board.
first did you get water based spar, or oil base spar? Second, I always cut my first coat with a 50% turpentine mix, let the spar really soak into the wood and make a bond, cut the second coat with 10%, then add 4-10 top coats, top coats are paper thin, just enough to let the varnish flow, 150-220 sand between coats, last coat wet sand and polish like a surfboard. Watch the heat when polishing, it will melt the finish and get sticky. The best speed dryer is Colbalt, toxic but good.
I’m betting you put the varnish on thick and maybe 2 coats? so now it’s trying to dry, but when it does it looks like grandmas cracked dry skin?
Let it sit for how ever long it will take to fry, it will dry, then sand with a 150 grit and reapply a light top coat, and wet sand out if applicable
I varnished a door once and it came out like crap, direct sun and on its hinges, so when I started making varnish finish balsa and redwood vintage reproductions for the movie I was once again shaking in my shoes.
I was worried about brush lines so I used my spray gun to apply really clean thin coats, the next day when I started to finesand the first coat it went OK until I got below the skin, then the varnish started to roll around like little worms, it was still uncured below the surface. I then knew I had a longer wait than anticipated, thus a longer time to get he boards finished, a lot longer.
The next batch I went for brushing, it flows like gloss resin, even very thin coats, but even after weeks of a coat every few days, the boards smelled like fresh varnish when the arrived off the boat in Hawaii.
I refinished one on the North Shore, under the carport, that Bonga had litterally stomped through the finish, it cured fast in the Hawaii heat.
Varnish takes as long as it takes, remember, no one has time to do it right, but time to do it over, I put one in the sun to dry it faster, the wood blew gas jets all over the board, had to do it over
hey,thanks guys!! yeah i didnt let it dry i guess,the can said it would take 3-4 hours or wait till hard, and i guess i didnt wait long enough. i used a brush and put it on pretty thick,and sanded with 220 grit. i also did it outside and the wind was blowing little pieces of dirt and bugs"organic i said ha ha", but now have my shed ready to make my next one. the board took a nosedive on too a 3 foot doubleup shorebreak waveand cracked the tip of the nose about 4 inches long. Is there a way to fix it,or is it wall art??? i live in north florida so the heat is not a problem unless its to hott. man i need to just wait!! maybe epoxy is faster but man its alot of $$$$
No one has given a good answere to this one yet. As a furniture maker I use varnishes ect. everyday. To know what is going on here I need more info. I must know the exact name of the varnish. I need to know what kind of wood your board is? Some varnishes are not compatible with some woods. Humidity can cause a drying problem. Being as how you are brushing your finish you will not be able to put on more than I coat it 24hr. Being as how you are in florida I would say 1 coat in 48hr. When brushing you need to thin. How much depends on the varnish brand. Japan dryers can be helpful if you know how and when to use them , because you don’t know , don’t use dryers. Another issue , is the varnish a gloss or satin ? Don’t try to solve the problem untill you understand what caused it ! Ahui Hou- Wood_Ogre
**I never thought of using varnish below the waterline. I’m a novas at it, but asked some high quality guys in the harbor questions to get my work done. One, like resinhead said, is to cut the first coat for penetration. I ended up building coats with a sanding sealer then multiple coats of spar to get the UV protection. The sanding sealer gets 2 or 3 coats on in a day. Varnish always seemed soft to me, but good results comes with thin, multiple coats. For durability, the harbor guys used catalyzed varnish on masts, lasting up to two years of exposure.**
** **
**I think if I were going to coat a wood slab, it would be epoxy hands down.**
hey thanks guys,well im at the station tonight,but when i get home in the morning ill get back with type and hopefully the name. thanks for the info. i hope this helps me and others. this site is a true statement on how we as ocean people can sovle problems and spread the joy of the ocean. if life was only so easy!! well got to go save a life,see ya.
If I just need a good seal I use exterior water based polyeurethane. You can get it in gloss, semi-gloss and satin. Its dries really fast, multiple coats in a day and water cleanup. The poly also seems to handle wear and UV better than spar varnish.
I have even coated an epoxy board with poly to provide better UV protection and it wet sands out really slick.
Downside is that the poly doesnt have that awesome amber / deep finish that varnish does. So for certain things (on the boat, etc) Ill still use varnish.
I was told years ago by an old salt that varnish needs to be mixed thouroughly and then allowed to sit for quite awhile to let the air bubbles release before brushing. Ill second everyone elses comments on adequate drying, second coats, thinning, etc…But I also knew a guy that kept the varnish cool and layed on thick coats with awesome results.
Its also very possible that environmental restrictions for the manufacturers have altered the formula and the spar varnishes of today are not the same as they used to be.
yoyo
I restore antique furniture. Don’t use much varnish, but learned to prime the wood with a dilute coat of unwaxed shellac first. Then apply the varnish. I think it’s almost impossible to buy good long oil varnish in the USA anymore due to enviormental stuff. The best varnish I have used came from Holland and is used by yacht finishers. Not sold in the USA. I think it has lead in it and that is one reason it works so well.In my opinion the lead paint ban was somewhat overblown. I mean jeese…of course you don’t eat the stuff or drink it either. Oh well. My rant for the day.Sorry. R Brucker
I worked sportfishing boats as a kid and was always a brush for hire, because I have the curse of perfectionism. As Jim said, you have to have patiences, every job takes a different time table. So I don’t know about wierd woods in water, but Mahagony,teak and Ipa I know. oil based spar give a amber appearance that can’t be matched if done right, 10 coats lightly sanded between, then wet sanded will give a deep mirror finish that nothing can compare too. The only reason we use spar is because it is flexible and breathes…wood, water…lot’s of movement. It’s a good finish but you have to keep up with it. Once you start getting movement cracks you need to start the finish repair. For most it’s too much work. Spar is not so much good for walking on, it’s too soft.
If you want a bullet proof clear high build finish, use a clear coat Linear Polyurathane or epoxy 2 part. Much faster than Spar, and much more 20th century. It can also be used below the waterline, spar can’t hang underwater.
As you have found out spar takes a long time to cure
What is this a fricking boating forum?
Aloha booze,
Don’t bef afraid of using varnish. It’s like anything else, once you understand it, you make it work for you. You obviously didn’t read the can directions because it would likely have suggested you wait 12 to 24 hours before sanding and applying the next coat. I would deffinitely not use japan dryers. They are very tricky and can harm the protective agents in the varnish. Wood Ogre is on que here… Unlike other “easy to apply” finishes such as oil, laquer, etc. varnish takes time and patience. As Jimthegenius said, it takes as long as it takes. Varnish is a very difficult finish to spray so don’t even go there. It’s a good idea to thin the first coat with paint thinner, naptha, or turpentine by 25% on the first coat (it doesn’t matter which one you thin with…the only difference between them is the refining process and how quickly each evaporates). It’s a myth that turpentine is better, harder to find, etc. Historically turpentine was made from the pine sap of certain pine trees found in Europe and Asia, but modern turpentine is synthetic. Naptha and mineral spirits, and paint thinners are all derived basically the same in various places on the refining food chain. Bottom line is that modern varnishes can be thinned successfully with any of them. Various rosewoods, oily woods do not like to have a varnish finish applied over them, but I doubt you made your board from any of those woods. It sounds as if you simply did not let the varnish dry adequately between coats. Usually 24 hours is adequate in most any environment. Sand with no courser than 220 to “roughen up” the surface to allow the next coat to adhere. Unlike shellac, laquer, etc., where subsequent coats “melt into” the previous coats, varnish simply adheres over the top of the previous coat. Though varnish wil feel dry to the touch in a day, it does not completely cure for a month and often longer. However, you do not want to wait days between coats because it will cure too much to adequately bond to the next coat.
Soooo, bottom line is that it can get complicated but doesn’t need to unless you let it. Let your gooey coats sit for a few weeks or until it sands adequately. Just allow your coats to cure 12 to 24 hours, sand lightly but uniformly with 220, completely clean all dust away, then apply the next coat. Dust is normaly a problem with varnish finishing on fine furniture type items, but on your board, just take the time to clean up between coats. You’ll do ok. Like an old mentor used to tell me 35 years ago, “If you can’t find the time to do it right, how are you going to ever find the time to fix it”. Patience! Enjoy the ride!
Richard
varnish is a required course.
the labels on the japan drier
on the top shelf decompose
after a couple years
r. r. epoxy is quite compatible
with a sense of laxy - daisy
three coats and water time!
yes there is a learning curve
with every medium…
…ambrose…
twentieth century apps
of 19th century materials
worth college credit.
Epoxy can be a fine solution
$? the dollar is the new penny
varnish aint free,the two cans
under my work table
you can still read the labels
I took out a big lump of jelly
outa one yesterday
someday I might use it.
the rest is still good
Before going through all of the trouble of removing and sanding, I would try making a temporary “board oven” using blue or pink Styrene insulation sheets. 2x8 and build a kind of a coffin, held together with tape, or push finishing nails through the foam to join ( if you want it portable or dis-assembled after). use a space heater at on end and block the other end off with just a crack of space for heat to escape and circulate through. A simple indoor outdoor thermometer with the sensor wire in the box and the setting on “outdoor” this will keep track of the temp in the box during “cooking” Keep the board on even stands and close to the top of the box. (the last thing you want is to warp your board with ill placed of shitty stands)
You will need to partially block the end that the heater is at and don’t point the heater directly at the board. this allows circulation of heat from one end of the board to the other and more evenly distributes the heat within the box.
I would try 100- 120 deg. for a few hours and then let the project cool and dry for a couple of days. I cook my epoxy at 138Deg. for 4-6 hours and it works great:) I time it with a stopwatch and even have a timed plug-in to shut off the heater automatically. (not necessary, but great if you use all the time)
My first oven was like this and now I have built a better one since. You could buy the foam, and take it back after.
Sounds complicated but it really isnt.
Hope this helps 
oops, just realized that your original question was posted over a month ago so the previous repply was probably too late. Hope at least it might help others at least
I must respond to Richards comment :Varnish is a very difficult finish to spray so don’t even go there. I would say that spraying varnish is not difficult ! It is difficult to learn to properly spray varnish because there is a lack of information on how to do it. Once you know how then it gives you better and faster results than brushing. I only spray in my shop since 1980 because I need a high end product that can be done in a timely manner. To learn finishing has been one of the most difficult things to learn because there is so much wrong information. To be a master of your craft you really need to know how to spray finishes other wise you will just be another weekend handyman. The rest of Richards info is dead on. As far as how to fix a finish, you can’t fix it untill you know what caused the problem. Thuse the need to know the exact name of the finish and the kind of wood it is put on. Ahui Hou- Wood_Ogre
I had one of those leaded varnishes and the can had warnings about not trying to make babies for three months after use as the risk of mutations was severe. Scary stuff.