I tried to find a photo Stingray , but couldn’t find one that showed it well enough…the boards were usually shallow fish tails , with flyers,or rounded pins with flyers…that had a thick tail to accommodate the upswing in the rail line…I only rode a borrowed one a few times ( aprox '73-'74)…they had a very short turning arc off the tail…the board I rode was shaped by Brad Mayes (?)
I thought vee out the tail was a brake? No experience because I’ve only ever done concaves in vee out to flat. Enlighten me, please.
Vee out the tail in the old days made for some slow boards for sure. The old deep vees were manueverable though, especially after a long board. Later vees were softer and didn’t effct the speed as much but did tend to take away accelleration. I personally started riding concaves in the early 70’s and never looked back except during the 80’s twin fin days when the vee gave the twins a bit of a center hold. Once three’s took hold the vee’s days were numbered in high performance. It was tough for many shapers to let them go though and you certainly still see them on lot’s of more classic shapes even today. Pretty sure vees won’t ever make much of a comeback on high performance boards again. Too much horsepower in those concave things and when you watch the worlds best ride them it’s hard to argue how important that design aspect became.
There's so much Brain power on Swaylock's .com....untill you need to post a photo......
I have a pretty good idea what Spiral Vee is.....it's kinda funny how so much brain power cannot get a simple photo posted to this thread.....Do you own a surfboard with "Spiral Vee"?
Can you take a few photos....and post them....Hey...
....you can call me Ray or you can call me Jay...or you can call me Johnston....but If I really knew what spiral vee was I would have posted a photo! ha ha ha ha .............
Australian Shaper Brad Mayes was the the most prolific innovator of surf shapes during the 70s in this country he had a fertile mind and that produced some magnificent and offbeat shapes, these boards actually worked great in a wide variety of conditions.
thank you , Tombstone !
and I believe Hot Buttered's Terry Fitzgerald also dabbled with spiral vees too , yes ? ....
[sorry , Ray ... 'if ' I had a photo of one , I WOULD most CERTAINLY post it here , you know me , eh !.... ]
cheers !
ben
I know we’re talking about vee in the tail, but I’ve been putting vee in the nose of some of my wide, small wave boards and they really help. I’m also liking some forward vee with concaves in my big wave boards.
Another interesting concept is the Sweet Potato idea… vee from nose to tail, with concaves, in a really wide, short board, with a quad setup. You can surf them rail to rail in the smallest waves imaginable.
Gold this little thread…
The succinct explaination from JimTheGenius and that last pic from Catfish just cleared up what has been a big question mark in my brain for the last 7-8 years… Basically ever since I had ever heard the term “spiral vee”.
thanks guys
Spiral Vee was a term created and used by Bob Mctavish describing his Vee bottoms .
The transition from a wide roll in the bottom to the narrow center of the Vee , like a Spiral , wide curve spiralling to a narrow curve .
No concaves
Brewer adapted a version this to his early downrail shapes .
The term was used later by those in the spotlight for double concaves in the tail .
And this has stuck till today .
1969 - 1971 all Channin Diff boards had double barrel concaves in the tail .
I borrowed Brian Livingston’s Brewer inter island which had a spiral Vee and Gary Cook’s Diff which had the concaves in the tail for a day for back to back testing :-)
Pretty sure that was in 1969
Great times
Excellent description with words Mr. Griffin.
No pictures required…
Diff made us boards with what he called “Spiral Vee” and they were The Quantum leap for performance and here is why:
Previously, boards with Vee continued the vee right out to the end of the tail. Diff’s way of doing it, was to have the vee start maybe six inches to a foot in front of the fin, have it reach a peak right under the fin, then to have the vee ending under the back of the fin and easing out to the end. In essence, it was sort of a “mound” under the fin, and thus a pivot point. Lot of the boards had subtle 1/8" deep concaves on each side of the vee, making them “double barrel” concaves- Diff explained that a bit of that he shaped in and some was the result of glassing laps.
McTavish: " The tail vee is only a swelling around the fin, due to the straightish rocker into the fin and the radical little tail kick.
So the rail rocker line is a nice curve due to the vee, get it?
Have a look at one closely and you’ll see what I mean.
The vee has gone by the time you get to the very end.
Some people call it the spiral vee. "
No matter who coined the term, “Spiral Vee” came to mean a mound slightly before and peaking under the fin, and flattening to the tail,with slight concaves on either side, The combo yielded very positive, quick turning boards that went more vertical, snapping in the hook at places like Sunset and Haleiwa.
What made it come to be called “spiral” was an apparent curve in the rail line when overcooked by some shapers- shown in the pic below - (Diff’s was more subtle or the curve was non-existant , very modern because it was leading edge then ) - it wasn’t really a curve as much as the difference in a constant exiting rail rocker curve, vs the diminishing stringer vee out the tail.
The result was that with that vee gone from behind the fin, the board was free to pivot more quickly and even be turned harder, since the pressure was being released sooner instead off the very tail. Boards rode a few inches shorter than their actual length, and allowed quicker more vertical surfing.
Slight bottom contours becoming Vee in front and at the fin then flattening became the standard from 1972 on .
Who was Duane Brown ? 
What bottom shape did this one have ?
Zack - the rolled vee is just softening the spine a bit… This came from a damn good Shaper I met through friends.
Greg,
Duane Brown (RIP), was from Pacific Beach, Ca. and was an excellent craftsman. He was shaping for Hansen when I came on board,in 1965. Either in 1966, or 1967, he left Hansen, and went to Surfboards Hawaii, to shape the popular ‘‘Model-A’’ model. As I recall, this REALLY pissed off Don Hansen. Don took his departure very personally. Duane built a stunning Rudyh Choy designed, 42 foot catamaran, in his backyard, just down the street from the shop in Solana Beach.
Duane was the production shaper at Channin Diffenderfer .
Diff was caught checking boards trying to see if it was his shape they were so close . :-)
One of the billion fun industry stories
I think it was ‘69 or ’70 in the spring when we heard that Brewer was going to be shaping in the old Chuck Dent factory in HB and he didn’t care who watched. We made a caravan of it, 4 or 5 inland guys, and drove on down the old Beach Bvd to the shop. He was doing a few 7’ ft. downrailers (that’s where I learned about “A” rails) and did this tail shape he called “spiral vee”. It was basically a “vee tail” with the rail break starting from in front of the fin and then a concave shaped into the panel on each side with a surform. The outside point of the rail as you looked from the tail to the nose was always lower than the stringer and the dip (convave) was visible between the rail & stringer. I noticed that he supported the rail with his hand as he shaped in the vee with the planer so each side ended up even. I still use this technique to this day when adding vee to a board. Thanks Dick! Just my 2c…
Are you speaking of this effect ?
Was this before this 1969 Ad ?
