Spiraling into nothingness..

General Discussion
1

I use to come to sways to learn about alot of new stuff and heavy discussions on board design alternative material use and fin hydrodynamics…

but lately the ignorance of the “Please Search” has created an endless spiraling whirlpool of how do I make a blank? How do I a make a board of EPS? Where do I buy my bulk EPS? How do I keep my production going to keep selling ookoo boards? Yup EPS and Epoxy is suddenly cool… Almost to the point where there is a slim chance of running into anything new other those same questions…

The tune almost sounds like the SurferMag or Surfline forums I left after discovering the innocence of Sways… Now as I look back and forth between the sites it’s getting harder to tell the difference other than the panic, anger and childishness that accompanies the other sites. But I’ve seen that creep in here more often than not lately as well…

I don’t know maybe it’s me, but things seem different nowadays…

A lot less excitement…

At lot less hey I tried this and this happened what do I do or look at what I did …

and alot more…hey show me this and show me that demands I’m used to seeing at Skurfer…

At least we aren’t flashing our bonzers and fishes or our latest 6’2" Lost potato chips all day long…

Again probably just getting grumpy with age…

2

or , as I predicted , is it just becoming “EPOXYLOCKS” now ?

yep , I agree with you Bernie about the repetitiveness !

The breath of fresh air was Lob’s report on his bonzer … *

…it would be nice to see some new boards and fins being made and surfed , and enthusiastic reports of how they surfed , from OTHERS !

It seems lately to be take take take at the moment …ironic , in this “season of giving” !

[yawn]

ben

  • and the ongoing "tribute to waves " thread of Carve Nalu’s …that thread , to me , puts it all into perspective as to why we make surfboards and fins in the first place …
3

I feel you. I’m a little tired of the dozens of threads with the same questions about EPS, too. I believe in the value of the material, so I keep on answering, because I hope that for every pro or backyarder who makes an EPS board, a PU doesn’t get blown.

But nothingness is a little harsh, don’t you think? I mean Sways & the guys running the Cerritos classes are hand-in-hand right now, for what that’s worth, and guys like Rich Harbour & Bill Thrailkill went to Cerritos. I think there’s a there, there. :slight_smile: And there’s still a there, here too.

I do wish people would experiment a little more. I’ve been able to answer a lot of questions - valid, innocent questions - in the last 2 weeks. But that’s on the basis of messing around with about 10 boards, in just over a year. I’m no Steve Forstall or Clyde Beatty. What I wish people understood is that, with just a tiny bit of experimentation, they would know just as much as I do about this crap. Its just not that hard to get somewhere. I guess you’re right about people wanting the information handed to them…afraid to fail.

Who’s signature was something like “If we knew what was going to happen, it wouldn’t be called research” ?

Trial & error. That’s a little of what’s missing right now, in my mind. If you, me, Dan, Sabs, Silly, Meecrafty, Marky, etc. were all afraid to experiment, Bert’s thread would have spawned 50 pvc-skinned vac bag boards, rather than 50 balsas. And we all know by now, the balsas surf better…:slight_smile:

People need to get off the computers a little & make something again. Me included. :slight_smile:

4

Okay, in response to the Clark Crisis and the Quad Revivalution, I had my brother cut a 6’2" Fish template from 1 pound EPS with a PVC stringer. Since I’m making fins for LokBox (as well as Red X and 4 Way right now) and Quads and LokBox seem to go hand in hand. Jimmy is going to install a Quad Lokbox setup in the blank. I’ve got Next Generation X-2 sides already for the trailers. But, we’re in the process of making a Next Generation X-4 that will be done in January.

So, how to laminate it. I’ve heard Greg say that 1 pound EPS is “great fun…but, I would sell one to a customer”. Bert has told me a sandwich is the only way to go. I asked Hank Jons at Cerritos if they had Core Matt. He told me they have even better. Spherex is a microballon filled cloth that draps nicely for a conforming thin sandwich core filler. So, I’m thinking Warp 6/Spherex/Warp 6 deck and double Warp 6 bottom. My only additional consideration is possibly finding a friend with a vacuum pump setup to pull some of the excess resin out of this thing.

5

Well, I don’t know how old you are but I am 33 and I agree. I used to come here to learn all kinds of things. I learned how to put in a fin box etc…Now its just EPS crap again…and again…and again…What now all other forms of contructing surfboards are dead? F-Epoxylocks! Lets just check back in 3 months when the PU markets are back in Swing and the Noxies have gone back to where they were before, on the short bus.

See ya in 3 (if sways is still here)

Chicksav

6

so now as per my original post …

photos of it being made , and a report of how it surfs when finished would be great , Tom !

cheers !

ben

7

My Brothers,

If there are questions, they get answers. It’s just that no one is carving Poly right now. Everyone is freeked out. I enjoyed the Cerittos seminar, and I’ll probably try 4 or 5 Styrofoam Dixie Cup Specials with RR epoxy and warp 6 oz cloth…just to see how they work, & see if i can make a better board. But I still love the sparkle of foam, and a deep red foam tint. I’m not walking from poly.

It’s just that were not getting any new shaper/ glasser into the Swaylocks folds. And if we do they are asking the same EPS questions. Remember when a new Poly shaper would post the question “HOW DO I SHAPE A SURFBOARD”, or maybe the time tested question “HOW DO I GET THOSE NEAT COLORS ON THE BOTTOM OF MY SURFBOARD”.

There out there, it’s just bombarding you now with “WHERE DO I BUY EPS FOAM” or HOW DO I MAKE A HOT WIRE CUTTER". like above, wait 6 mos, and it will all be sorted out.

-Jay

Hey Tom, I got an old Refrig. compressor if you want it. Kinda smells like squid tho…

8

Chip,

 I'll see to it that I post those pictures.

Resinhead,

   I've got a buddy that builds carbon fiber masts. He's local and an expert. So, thanks. But, if I go there he's got the equipment end covered along with the experience. And he was at the seminar on Saturday...he's thinking about consulting for anyone who's interested.
9

well, now let´s see…

while i agree with the sentiment here, same ol´same ol´que pasa nonsearching slackness, this is just a cycle, like everywhere.

i know i haven´t posted in a while. maybe because i been too broke to buy foam. got a bunch o boards in the shop, and no one shopping… great.

anyway, i did see a real funky bottom contour on a longboard the other day… i´ll try and post a photo.

hugs and kisses to all,

10

I’ve actually found it exciting. I have found all of the answers to my recent questions in the archives as well. Before blank monday I really had little interest in EPS/epoxy and less in vac bagging. Now…why not wrap my head around that as well as continuing to learn to shape/glass poly better.

And if some newbie posts with a question we all know is in the archives…tell 'em to do a search!

11

That’s a lot of glass for a 6’2"

you could get away with 2/6 or 4/4 or 2/4S

I’ve done 2/4 and 2/6 on 7’6" and bigger boards without stringers but balsa skin…

If spherex? is like Dvivi or Corecel it should be plentry strong without the double 6 unless you want to make it heavy…

hey but I’m no pro…

I’d even go double 6 without a middle layer

12

For one pound EPS? I’ve got zero personal experience. So, I’m just going off what Bert Burger, Greg Loeher and Hank Jons has told me. If it were 2 pound or higher I’d totally agree with you. But, the one pound stuff floats in the air when you cut it.

13

Yeh I know…

The boards I’m talking about were made from off the shelf insulation slabs from Lowes @ $13/sheet.

I don’t even thing they were 1lb…

A piece of cr*p to work with floppying all over the place but a good starting point to learn about EPS at its lowest denominator. Hell people using 2lb and above don’t know how good they got it.

2lb and above ain’t no different than using a regular blank anyway…

I know JJP got his cost down by hotwiring from a big block but a $13-$14 blank is like getting a board for nothing…

I can glue up my favorite rocker in a day cutout whatever outline I want and go from there…

pretty close to finding a way to make a board out of your coffee cup or local woolworth’s styro cooler… Even better out of rice krispie specials like Keith did…

I’d go double 6 with balsa for anything 8’ and above especially with a stringer.

The board should be awesome with that design and those fins… good combo

14

maybe its just that surfermag/surfline forum users are gravitating to swaylocks and duplicating their posts on this board, so it ends up full of standard everyman surfboard questions. i must say that it has changed from how it was to begin with. but thats the way it goes when something becomes popular. the regulars will always be here comunicating between themselves anyway. those that want an alternative information source just sift through the bullshit to get to it.

15

oneula,

revolution doesnt come fast, Clark shut down this month…things will settle down

Tom,

dont care for either coremat or spheretex (have had samples of both)…its just soft filler that sucks resin and has questional mechanical value…slap 3 layers of 6 on top and 2 on the bottom…all with 2000…my best effort was an ultralight core with a 1/8 dcell deck 4oz on either side of it…10oz total on the bottom…that board was majical…lokbox is the way to go too with that big flange…

cheers

16

I think Greg said Lowe’s type insulation was typically 2 pound. Clark ultra lights fell in th 2.35 pound range and on up. So, the newer availability of 2.5 pound and 3 pound EPS foams are right in the Clark range. But, this one pound stuff is very weak and needs consideration. Sandwich schedules make sense. But, which sandwich schedule?

17

Thanks for the info. What’s a good source for d-cell and was it wet lay up or did you vacuum bag it? And, did you pocket the d-cell or taper blend it to the rails?

18

It makes me think of how much I owe the people how have come before me. As a teacher I know dumb questions when I see them and I’ve asked more than my fair share. I’ve had two huge advantages over many of the new newbies. First of all I started off knowing nothing. This means that I had no preconceived ideas making me open to everything. The second is my livelihood didn’t depend on how much I learned and how quickly I learned it.

Tom - I would glass it very heavy. I think I remember Benny saying that his first now famous $14 board did not stand the test of time. You would not believe how insanely strong the composite boards are. The real challenge is to not make it too strong. The thing about sandwiching it is you really need to plan to sandwich before you start shaping. What would be a cool test is to glass this one traditionally then make a twin sandwich and see the difference.

19

Tom,

Why not take a little strip of the stuff and see how a triple 6oz deck and double 6oz bottom feel on the stuff?

Mahalo, Rich

20

i got mine from a local marine industry supplier…the 1/8 thickness is very difficult to find and i got the last sheet they had so that may not be the best option…

i had forgoten about wetting…thats the hard part, wetting glass on top sucked too much resin into the pvc foam…that was the big negative but i know others here have used it with success but std hand layup is likely out of the question (strangely enough, you can take a piece of dcell and submerge it water for hours and it doesnt soak at all…no weight gain whatsoever, but for some weird reason it drinks resin…???)

i didnt even use a vac bag just put a bunch of heavy bags on the deck to cure…that was a blessing cuz the board rode great…my first real majic board…since retired due to wear and severe damage

i re read your post and i gotta say that sw construction is not very production friendly IMO and ive concluded that what Greg’s been doing for years and years is the way to go (Greg is a very very smart dude)…transitioning to #2+ foam would be very easy…transitioning to #1 with sw is not, but it could be if consumers would be willing to pay for the extra labor and a different feelin ride…i’d say the labor hours for sw is double or likely more…theres a good reason why surftechs are made overseas…

sorry for being so contradictory here…i’ve tried so many variation of things this year that i’ve lost track of outcomes