Strange Epoxy Happenings

General Discussion
1

Here is a strange issue, and something that has NEVER happened to me before. Ever. I just glassed five Epoxy boards. (RR/Beaded foam)

All five boards were sealed with lightweight spackle. Board number five was sealed by the shaper and he may have thinned the spackle a bit with water. Board number five was then sanded and picked up by the customer so they could do their own artwork on the bottom.

Whilst glassing, all my Epoxies went off without a hitch EXCEPT for the board the customer took home. Board number five. The bottom glassed up just fine, but on the deck, about 1/3 up from the tail and off to one side, there were two areas about the size of a fifty cent piece, where the resin did not kick off. While sanding, the paper got gummy and on closer inspection, and after cutting away the resin and cloth with a blade, the foam underneath was still gummy with resin. The rest of the deck was just fine. My thoughts are that whatever they set the board down on to paint the bottom, (The kitchen table?) it had something like oil, baby drool, or butter, or who knows what, that got into the blank. Because, when Epoxy is mixed correctly…or not, it either goes off…or not, right? There is no in between. Why would two small areas not go off? Problem is, I’m left holding the bag because the customer certainly will not admit contamination, and the shaper probably would not admit contamination as it is highly unlikely that it happened while in his possesion, so it must be the glasser.(No, I’m not bitter. Not yet)

Has this happened to anyone else, and if so, was the cause ever discovered?

I was able to cut out the bad areas and re-glass, although you can tell, so the New board looks not so new. Actually, the cloth just pulled off the areas with little effort. The only other explanation I can come up with is that there were two bad spots in my cloth, which seems unlikely. I would have noticed and it would have gone through more than one layer on the roll. Oh Well, Another few sleepless nights for the Gringa…

That’s it. No more problems for now but stay tuned! It’s been a rough week and it’s not over yet!

2

Are you sure you mixed properly? If the some A molecules don’t touch some of the B molecules those molecules won’t react.

3

Did you check the contact points on your glassing rack? Something could have got on the blank when you glassed the bottom first, or even when it was spackled. Spackle won’t seal anything, so if something was on the blank it could bleed through. Any kind of oil, wax, whatever contaminating the epoxy will inhibit hardening. If everything else hardened properly, it isn’t a mixing issue.

4

knowing that you’re experienced with epoxy, i would say that you’re probably right.

the customer probably set it on something that they shouldn’t have… the fact that it

just happened in those 2 spots is a dead giveaway. if you had not mixed your epoxy

i’m thinking that it would have been a little more widespread. and if it was on your

glass, it would have gone to other layers for sure.

5

I have this strange feeling.

the ESP HOTLINE went off

two marks?

on the deck?

are they on the neck part of the deck?

could be vampires!!!

the only way to deal

is a stake through the heart.

the first time I wrote steak

on third thought I think I was right.

…ambrose…

two finger lift?

yep alien abduction

two fingered aliens

are running rampant…

6

Sometimes a glob of unmixed resin on the side of the bucket - even the outside of the bucket - will run down and drip on the cloth while you’re pouring. If that resin hits the cloth first, it will never harden, no matter what else you do. This is more likely to happen if you don’t get a nice, neat transfer out of the resin container into the mixing bucket… I know sometimes I measure out too much resin and have to put some back in the container. When that happens, I take extra care to make sure the sides are well scraped down, and the lip and outside of the bucket are clean. If I have to, I’ll even pour the mixed resin/hardener into a new bucket to do my lamination.

Epoxy is weird like that.

7

I agree with NJ_surfer.

With my first laminations, the epoxy left in the bucket in the corners did never polymerise, it always stayed sticky. Luckily I always left some resin in my bucket so it never ended up on my board.

Then I asked it in my shop and the guy told me that it is very difficult to mix the resin in the corners, so the safest thing to do is that you mix it in one bucket then pour it in another and mix again a little bit.

In that second bucket I never had any unharden resin.

So it could have been that you scraped out the corners and put that resin on those two places. Have you scraped out the last bit of resin out of your bucket?

8

Thanks for the thoughts on this guys. I’m fairly certain that I mixed the resin well though. I usually stir my Epoxy for at least three minutes. I am also fairly certain that no contaminates fell from the bucket, although I could always be mistaken. My experience with Epoxy has been either all or nothing. Never had a spot problem before. If my racks were contaminated, I would think that the boards I glassed prior to the “Problem Child” would have had the same problem. I’m not perfect by any means, but this was just way too weird. I like the Alien theory. Or quite possibly “Shop Trolls”. Mean and nasty little things that cause havoc and destruction when you are not looking. Every shop has them and for some reason, I assumed my shop was too small for them to bother with!

9

Leslie … the shop trolls are named after the alien planet “Murphy” … in this business we’re all subject to their laws … happens to the best of us once in a while … Have Fun !!

Steve,Steve, Steve

10

I am going with Ambrose. VAMPIRES

11

I’ve done this one. Didn’t mix it in a corner of the bucket some how. I’m always careful to mix into the corners and scrape the bottom of the bucket well when I’m mixing. I’ll bet I’ve seen others do this a dozen times as well. Somewhat common small mistake really. You fixed it the right way.

12

Well, please don’t take this the wrong way. But my particular buckets don’t have corners! Hah!

And when I stir, I hear Beatty’s voice in my head every time: “Now, be sure to scrape the sides of the bucket while you are stirring and stir for at least three minutes in both directions!” He would say that with his hands twisted in his curls. I really do LOVE that guy! Anyway, that is not to say that I may have missed a spot, but I don’t see how. The mystery remains perplexing. The board came out fine but you can definitely see where I patched it. I took $100 off the glass job. It sure would be nice to know what happened so it can be avoided the next time. Either way, I think it is a very bad idea for a customer to take home a shaped, unglassed surfboard. If they want to do artwork, they should do it at the shapers place or the glassers place…in a more controlled environment, then, if something goes wrong, the customer is out of the equation.

13

do you use mixing bowls - as that would be the only vessel without a corner … Have Fun … !!

14
Quote:

Either way, I think it is a very bad idea for a customer to take home a shaped, unglassed surfboard. If they want to do artwork, they should do it at the shapers place or the glassers place…in a more controlled environment, then, if something goes wrong, the customer is out of the equation.

Absolutely. Way too many variables putting an unglassed board in someone’s hands who may or may not know how to handle a shaped blank. You went above and beyond giving them that much of a discount.

15

It’s a small town. Everybody knows everybody. Bad news spreads worse than runny pancake syrup so I had to do something. Who knows, it could very well have been my fault. Either way, all the boards got delivered today. Shaper was WAY stoked. Not near as upset as I was about the “Problem Child”. He thought it was no big deal. Board actually looked pretty nice give or take.

Time to forget about it and move on to the next batch! I think I better burn some medicinal sage in my glass room to ward off any leftover bad spirits though!

16
Quote:
Did you check the contact points on your glassing rack? Something could have got on the blank when you glassed the bottom first, or even when it was spackled. Spackle won't seal anything, so if something was on the blank it could bleed through. Any kind of oil, wax, whatever contaminating the epoxy will inhibit hardening. If everything else hardened properly, it isn't a mixing issue.

Yep. +1. Mixing issues don’t happen in 1 or 2 small areas on a finished board, unless it’s excessive. Look at contamination problems like tape glue residue, finger oil, etc.

17
Quote:
I've done this one. Didn't mix it in a corner of the bucket some how. I'm always careful to mix into the corners and scrape the bottom of the bucket well when I'm mixing. I'll bet I've seen others do this a dozen times as well. Somewhat common small mistake really. You fixed it the right way.

This most certainly happens sometimes.