Stringerless Build for Cheapness?

General Discussion
1

Hey everyone.

I’m relatively new to the board-building thing. I’ve only made one so far, and it was a very standard build (PU w/ stringer + poly resin). It turned out great though! But the cost came out at a lot more than I expected, around $500 NZD, and as I’m a poor student, I can’t really afford to do that again.

So! I was thinking of alternatives. The fibre cloth and resin is a cost I’m not going to be able to cut back, but maybe the blank? I paid $150 NZD for the last blank, so I was thinking I could just buy a big block of foam from a foam specialist and shape a stringerless board.

Couple things I think I’d need some advice on before I jump in and screw something up…

  1. What type of foam is used? I understand that I’m after either PU or EPS (depending on what resin I choose to go with), but is there a specific type of EPS or PU that’s extra high density?

  2. How do people achieve stiffness without a stringer? I was thinking of trying to do a wood veneer on the deck for stiffness and beauty, if that’d work, how exactly does one go about glassing a non-porous layer in?

And a quick No. 3. Which resin will lower my costs the most (taking PU/EPS costs into account)? Epoxy or Poly.

Thanks in advance!

2

Look into EPS foam in the 1.5-2lb range and make sure that it has good bead fusion. The epoxy resin will be a bit more expensive but it’s more rigid and in combination with the fiberglass and carbon it’s the best option. You can wrap the rails in carbon in order to stiffen up the board. If you run it along where the stringer would be then you’re not getting the maximum effect. Carbon is always stiffest/strongest when you put a curve into it. If you want to you could stringer your own EPS blank and just go with a standard glassing schedule. You could go with a veneer but then you’d have to vacuum bag it to get it super tight. Divinycell is a very high density construction foam that some guys use for deck inlays on surfboards and on wind surf boards but I’ve never heard of an entire board made out of it. Look into the EPS foam options in your area and then you can map out the materials you’ll need from there.

http://shop.fiberglasshawaii.com/fabrics

3

where are you buying your supplyes from? I saw csa advertising blanks for 150 but they are a lot less from the supplyer or 50x1200x2400 1.5lb eps is bout 60bucks at bunnings. Theres a place in west akld selling clear epoxy 2:1 $60 for 3l slow set up but cheap and nice to use no exotherm ether.

4

[quote="$1"]

Hey everyone.

I'm relatively new to the board-building thing. I've only made one so far, and it was a very standard build (PU w/ stringer + poly resin). It turned out great though! But the cost came out at a lot more than I expected, around $500 NZD, and as I'm a poor student, I can't really afford to do that again.

So! I was thinking of alternatives. The fibre cloth and resin is a cost I'm not going to be able to cut back, but maybe the blank? I paid $150 NZD for the last blank, so I was thinking I could just buy a big block of foam from a foam specialist and shape a stringerless board.

Couple things I think I'd need some advice on before I jump in and screw something up...

1. What type of foam is used? I understand that I'm after either PU or EPS (depending on what resin I choose to go with), but is there a specific type of EPS or PU that's extra high density?

2. How do people achieve stiffness without a stringer? I was thinking of trying to do a wood veneer on the deck for stiffness and beauty, if that'd work, how exactly does one go about glassing a non-porous layer in?

And a quick No. 3. Which resin will lower my costs the most (taking PU/EPS costs into account)? Epoxy or Poly.

Thanks in advance!

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This is awsome and just what i was looking to do. I want to build my own blank out of pour foam. I know it will save tons of money!!

Answers to your questions, or what i would do:

1) I'd glue together a bunch of package foam from packaging stuff, like TV's and Computers. They are  always telling us to recycle so heres a huge chance to make something sick!

2) Once the blank is all glued up and in a square, I'd go to a construction site and get a left over scrap of 2x6 on maybe if lucky a sheet of 3/4 ply wood. Theres stiffness! or like you asked go stringerless, I'd glass some sweet burlap cloth, or maybe a old blanket.

3) I'd get any brand that is cheap. Who cares it it's brittle and yellow? As long as it pours out and get hard, right, So I'd say anything that that 4 to 1 stuff. Or better yet, just seal your blank with paint and use polyester. I've done that ton of times.  heres a picture of my latest shape so you can see I'm not full of BS, I'm the real deal.

-Stinger Out

5

I’ve made quite a few stringerless boards from PU, EPS and XPS foam. The strength is in the glassing and the laps going around each side. You will need to get the proper resin for the type of foam you use. Poly resin will melt EPS and XPS foam.

The hardest part is shaping, but if you have a good idea of what you want to make, it shouldn’t be that much trouble.

I’ve made boards that I’ve bent rocker into using flat sheets of foam against the bottom of previously made boards for rockers I wanted. I’ve shaped boards from blocks of foam by carving out what I want, I’ve cut blocks with a hot wire to get my rocker, and I’ve cut rocker slices then glued them up and trued it up to get my blank.

I’ve found the cutting rocker slices creates the least amount of wasted foam, and cutting a single board from a big block leaves the most waste. Rocker slices will leave you with glue lines, so use a glue that is easy to shape, not epoxy. The last board I made was cut out of a single block of XPS (blue dow) foam 3"X24"x96" using a hand saw to cut the outline and my cheap electric planer to get the rocker and profile I wanted. I got the foam for about $10US so I just went at it. I added a little nose rocker when I glassed the board by adding a weight on the nose.

When you glass the board make the laps wide, like 2 inches around the rail on both sides. I’ll do 2 layers on each side and make the first layer (closest to foam) wider than the top layer. That helps when you smooth it out. You will have a stiff board. You could add deck channels like Stretch does to make it stiffer.

Look at your local resources for deals on second hand construction materials. I use Craigslist but I don’t know if they have that where you are. That’s how I found the EPS and XPS foam I have been using. When I cut EPS blocks into rocker slices, I got each blank for about $5US. You can get good deals for fiberglass on eBay, but be careful who you buy from. I got a bunch of bad glass the last time I tried to go cheap.

The cheapest I could go is about $120US for a finished single fin board. The cost for fin boxes will be as much as $30 a board, maybe more. If you can get a group together and buy in bulk, you can save money and get good quality supplies.

 

6

Home Depot blanks. Blue or Pink. Tons of info on this site. The search bar has never let me down.

7

Stringerless is a great way to go.  It will need some stiffening, like extra rail glass, rail gutters like Strech, carbon, or skins.  If not, you will notice the first steps of failure in a dimpling/ denting/ buckle forming on the deck, just in front of the fins, toward the rails. 

Stringerless will probably flex more than stringered, so shape in flatter tail rocker than normal.

It took me about five builds before I started on figuring out the flex/ stiffness variables, and I still have a long way to go.  Don’t plan on magic, but it is a different path to follow.

8

Dude, you need to try harder or get better writers.  Not even a grin this time.

 

 

9

"I was thinking I could 'just' buy a big block of foam from a foam specialist and shape a stringerless board."

It's a slippery slope.... You'll spend time making profile patterns, assembling a hotwire device, procuring a transformer, etc, etc.  After all that, you'll have a rectangular 'sled-cut' slab that is still a long way from a regular close tolerance blank.  If you aren't doing a bunch more, you now have a pile of stuff you won't be using much.

When I saw the word 'just' I felt compelled to advise.  Anyone working with the public will tell you that when a customer asks if they can't 'just' do something (anything) his/her way, it practically guarantees the doubling of the price and doubling the length of time it will take over what the person is suggesting.

I'm not saying it can't be done but having been there, I know it's more complicated and less cost effective than you might think.

10

Something I didn’t think about…

I buy old beat up longboards, strip them then reshape them. That’s how most of us made our first boards back in the 60’s and 70’s. It’s a little more work to strip a board, but you’ll be working with PU foam and can use Poly resin or UV Poly resin. I think Poly is easier to work with from a sanding and finishing perspective.

Just look for an old board with glassed on fins that is bigger and thicker than what you want to make. Make sure the dings are not going to mess you up. I try to get old thick and wide longboards because I like the low nose rocker, and I make boards about 7’ - 8’. An 80’s shortboard may have enough foam to reshape a modern shortboard.

John is right about trying to do this on the cheap. A modern PU blank will be so much easier to work with to get a good finished board. I have more than a handful of experiments gone bad sitting around. The costs for the glassing and the time spent don’t make up for what I learned not to do.

11

…for cheapness? --Stringerless for different flex characteristics, maybe even lighter if you know how to do a bang-up glass job.

I’d go EPS verbatim FiberglassHawaii. Not a fan of XPS, that stuff is actually more expensive, pound for pound and has bonding issues. I’d find a stryo supplier, hardware store stryo is film coated and be weary of that stuff, it sucks water too easily. This nixes your poly resin option, unless you’re doing glass-on fins post-lamination. I have some sun cure laying around, but I use that for furniture and I stick to one resin system. A little more expensive, but consistency and quality for the discipline of glassing are more important to me than being cheap. 

I’m new to the stringerless game too, I just cloned my favorite Cordell in a stringerless version w/aramid tape, looks like carbon, pretty sure it’s a kevlar. Gonna try a vector net rail & deck later. I was thinking even your glass schedule could maintain your rocker.

I also force-rocker straight billets of stryo to save foam & a little money, but eventually you’ll want to wire-out your rocker, so I’ve heard. Helps w/the life of the board, and its flex pattern.

Best of luck on your builds.

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12

 

That was funny

13

…yeah, my 2nd of only 2 XPS attempts-- and my last. Dude, XPS is weird, pandora’s box, a real pain in the ass once you start laminating it. I lost hours on this P.O.S., ended up giving it to my nephews to use as a balance board in their garage.

 

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14

[quote="$1"]

[quote="$1"]

[quote="$1"]

lots of stuff that isn't very funny.

[/quote]

Dude, you need to try harder or get better writers.  Not even a grin this time.

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That was funny

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SHUT UP!  Dot make fun of me.

-Stinger