Suggestions for specialized/adapted surfboard

Hello Swalock’s Members!

I currently ride a 6’0 x 22" x 2 7/8" fish. I am regular footed. I have been surfing for 15 years and I surf a minimum of 200 days a year. I mostly surf knee to head high beach break.

Every six months, my favorite local shaper and I tweak my board with the goal of ultimately moving to a traditional shortboard. Unfortunately, I have a congenital deformity involving retroverted hips and twisted tibias bilaterally. As a result, I have difficulty getting my front foot far enough forward when I pop up. I often have to take an extra step and I am constantly losing speed. My back foot is eactly where it should be.  

I am looking for suggestions for my next board. Does anybody have any design/shaping ideas on how to counteract the fact that I am too far back on my board.  Please do not reply with advice to get a longboard or a SUP! Whilst I respect and admire these pursuits, I am determined to shortboard until I am old and grey.   

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

hey man have you thought about less conventional hull designes like the Lovelace V bowls? or maybe something more modern with a really parallel outline like a Tomo Vader or Vanguard? ive yet to surf anything like eather of these suggestions so they may be no good for you situation. But its a thought… Im cuerious to hear what a more expierenced rider or shaper might say…

Matt

I’ll go out on a limb here, since I’m no expert regarding your medical condition, but it seems to me a modern high performance shortboard, with its narrow nose and wider rear, would be more conducive to your condition than a fish.  Of course, the term fish is widely used for a variety of different shapes, so I’m just going on assumption.  But it seems that if you’re having issues getting your weight forward, then you would do better on a board designed to be ridden from the back half, having a wide point behind the middle, and less volume / planing area up front.

I’d echo pretty much everything Huck just said, with the addition of one extra thing (and this happens to relate to Gibeau’s suggestions too); I picked up a 5’11" Vanguard a few months back - it’s got speed and it certainly likes to have your back foot right back on the tail (i.e. could be good for someone who has trouble getting their weight forward on the board).

The extra thing I’d add to what Huck said is if you’re having a hard time getting your weight forward on the board due to your condition, (in addition to having the wide point closer to the tail), having a little more volume under the back foot will help in generating speed, particularly at low speeds/on the takeoff.

The Vanguard keeps plenty of volume through the tail, e.g. there’s probably a good inch worth of thickness still left in the board at the end of the tail, and the other Tomo boards I’ve seen (Nano, Vader and Evo) all share this feature. So if you can wangle your way onto one of these boards (that’s the right size for you) for a few waves to see if it helps with your problem, I’d jump at it.

To help people get a better idea of your situation, what’s your height, weight & age (it sounds like your paddling fitness is pretty good if you’re getting out 200 days a year)?

Cheers :slight_smile:

I’m going to go opposite the ideas here, and suggest you get a board with the wide point forward and concentrate a lot of volume under your chest. My idea is that it would place you in a more forward position when paddling, therefore putting you in a more forward position on the board once you popped up. Then if you had to, it would be fairly easy just to slide your back foot a little. 

Very well reasoned, and worth looking into.

 

Excuse me but the gentleman said nothing about not being able to paddle, or popping up etc. or even eventually being in a forward position. His issue is the lame front leg / foot that can not be placed in the proper forward position (im assuming early on in during the ride). Subsequently he is, and will always be  a back footed surfer.  If this is true statement then why would you ever want a forward hipped board? …And  you would want want a neutral to a slightly wide point back surfboard, that favors a rear footed surfer.  His ultimate goal of a turnable surfboard and away from a cruzier was stated…  The guy surfs 200 days a year. He knows how to surf, he just needs a little something, something.  Lets not turn him towards 70’s boards that favored the front footed surfer. Lets not try to force him into something that he will never be, and lets play on his strengths.

Mr. Bad Leg Congenital Deformity involving Retroverted Hips and Twisted Tibias Bilaterally…I now call you (BLC-DiRHTTB):  My humble opinion would be to make a shape that favors a rear leg surfer, not a front foot surfer with shapes like fishes and older 70’s shapes.  I’m not going to recommend a specific shape…there are many that would work.

Go a lot shorter? I’m short, so my legs are short, and one thing I like about really short boards is that I don’t have to have my legs far apart to control the entire board, and I don’t have to move around a lot on the board once I’m up. I’d imagine in your case that when you pop up on a shorter board your foot would already be in the right spot, rather than popping up and having to move the front up more. Combine that with a wide point/hips back design for turnability from the rear. I’d agree with making a shape favoring a back footed surfer, not something for a front footed person to force a technique change. 

What’re your past boards like, other than this fish? You must have some idea of what does and doesn’t work by now. 

Hey all,

This is an interesting thread and I’d like to see our friendly O.P. be able to participate in the discussion he started.  Looks like he’s new, though, and may need a few more points to reply(?)

Do we need to help him out with this? 

I just hit the plus sign and it looks like it subtracted a point.  Am I misunderstanding the point thing?

All good. Your upvote gave him a point, and he now has enough to participate.

Thank you Gibeau. I have not tried the Vader of the Vanguard but I did watch the comparison reports on the Shred Show on You Tube. I have a friend with the Vanguard and he is willing to let me try it. 

Thank you all for your great responses. I have forwarded them to my shaper. To answer a few of your questions. I have yet to try the Vanguard or Vader but I have a pal with one and he is willing to let me try it. I think that bringing the wide point back on the board is a solution but I still have to consider ease of paddle and ease of pop up. Maybe something similar to a Firewire Baked Potato shape?? As for your other questions, my fitness is average to above average. I am a good paddler and, maybe I should have divulged this sooner, but I am a 43 yr old woman - 5’7" x 160 lbs, athletic build. So, Resinhead, we need to change it to Mrs. Bad Leg … Ha ha!  I truly appreciate all of the input and I look forward to trying the board that results. The attached is a photo taken this week and you can see how far back I am. 

 

Nice photo skeown! You may find some interest in this thread

http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/old-man-and-sea

I started the thread to discuss surfboard shapes for aging surfers. We face very similar limitations in paddling and pop-up, even if we are in otherwise great shape. You, or your shaper, may find some insight or inspiration there. And we would love to hear any insights or observations you might have in dealing with your (related) circumstances. Welcome to Swaylocks!

Heavy rear foot + relatively narrow stance strikes me as a prime candidate for a McCoy style design where the wide point and center of mass are well behind center. The heavy rear foil + domed bottom + the singlefin he normally favors would reward the reear foot approach and be real pivoty.  

Another possibility is the Stoker Vee Machine design with the wide tail block, extra tail rocker and thruster setup.  

 

Singlefin designs normally work with narrow stances.  

 

 

:slight_smile: you’re very welcome.

I have another suggestion for you, and it’s something you can do right now (i.e. in your next surf session), and without having to wait for another board to be built for you… but I’ll get to that later in this post.

First of all:

  1. good on you for your commitment to your surfing; 200 days a year in the water is something many surfers who don’t live near the water dream of, and also something which many who do live near the water could do, but don’t.

  2. good on you for your commitment to your development of your surfing (in spite of your handicaps); from the sound of it, you’re working with, and getting a board built by a local shaper every 6 months - which is helping keep a roof over them and their family’s head. In the last decade and a bit, the mass-production of surfboards in countries with cheap labour has killed off the livelihood of many of the smaller local shapers, and your regular purchase of boards from them is helping to counteract that.

I’m not a pro-shaper, but a few of the other users here on Swaylocks are, and people like you are helping keep them employed and their family’s fed. Good stuff :slight_smile:

My instinct on that is yes, but I’ve never actually ridden a Baked Potato, so my response to that would be “I think that could work for you; see if you can try one out”.

gdaddy’s comments about Geoff McCoy’s Nugget/Astron Zot boards also ring true for me, but again I haven’t ridden any of them either so can’t comment from first-hand experience about them; again see if you can get a few waves on one to find out if it works for you.

My impression of the Baked Potato is it’s a groveller with some performance to it (i.e. could be limited to small-to-medium size surf), while the Nuggets are all-rounders (good in small to large surf) that are fast, have tons of volume and are very user-friendly (e.g. good for beginner through intermediate-to-advanced surfers, but something an advanced surfer would reject in favour of a high-performance shortboard).

Depends on what you’re after.

Heck, ride as many different boards as you can and tell your shaper how they went for you, including the ones that “sucked” - it’s all good information for them.

Okay, now we’ve come to that suggestion (in fact it’s more like a bunch of questions) I mentioned at the start of this post: does your board have an interchangeable fin system in it (e.g FCS, Futures, etc)?

If it has this, what kind of fins do you have in your current board, and how much have you played around with putting different fins in the board  to try and alleviate the problems you’re having?

You say you’re having trouble getting speed. Also that you have trouble getting forward (i.e. are having to step forward) on the board to try and alleviate that.

Not much you can do to change where your feet land on the board by swapping fins around, but it is possible (to a degree) to alter how the board responds to your stance in it’s current position, by playing with the fins a bit.

According to a theory I read here on Swaylocks from a fair while ago, if your board is a thruster and you reduce size of the fin in the central thruster fin-slot, the tail of your board will ride a little higher in the water when you’re trimming down the line, more rail line (and I think bottom surface area too?) will be brought into play and your board will plane/pick up speed easier.

However if you’re also having to step forward to get to the “sweet spot”/pivot-point for turning your board, and reducing the size of the central thruster fin doesn’t alleviate this, you may also need to reduce the size of the fins in your thruster’s side fins; according to the theory, this will have a similiar effect to bringing the wide-point further to the rear of the board; less rail-line engaged, more bottom surface engaged, and sharper, less carvey/drawn out turns.

That’s the theory anyway, assuming I’m interpreting/applying it correctly to your circumstances; maybe it’s the other way around.

I’d probably start out playing with the centre thruster fin to get the speed you’re after. And then start playing with the side fins to get the turning you’re after.

I haven’t played around with this too much myself though (while I’ve a few different fins, they’re evenly distributed between different style fin systems, so there’s actually not much all that much room for interchangebility of fins within and between boards).

Secondly, this theory may well be more for fine-tuning of how a board responds rather than effecting radical changes in response.

If you’re riding a twin, you can play with the side fins to alter pivot-point (according to the theory), but probably can’t do much for increasing down the line trim speed. If you’re riding a quad though, the theory may still work by putting in smaller rear quad fins to increase down the line trim speed (maybe to a lesser extent though? - guess it depends on how far back your quad rears are positioned).

But anyway, have a play if you can beg or borrow fins from friends. If nothing else, it’ll be fun and you’ll learn something.

Now, Swaylocks is free for all.

But it shouldn’t be. Well, not entirely anyway; I (along with a bunch of others) have put in time and effort in replying to your question, and (while I can’t speak for the others), I’d appreciate if you could do something in return - could you please post to let us know what’s happened next as a result of our responses.

If you play (or have already played) around with fins, how did that turn out for you?

If your shaper builds you a new board, what’s it like, could you post some photo’s of it please? What’s new/different from before (and why) and how’s it ride for you?

Come to think of it, do you think you could post a photo of your current board leaning up against a wall with the bottom showing (so we can get an idea of the outline and fin setup) as well as a side view (i.e. so we can see the rocker-lines).

Lastly if you do end up playing with the fins, and the suggestions I mentioned above turn out to solve your problem here’s what I’d like you to do: pay the credit where it’s due by sending a nice thank-you email to a guy named Greg Loehr (you can reach him at gl10@aol.com ) seeing as he was the one that posted that theory here on Swaylocks all those years ago.

Tell him about your circumstances, and how the application of the theory he posted here so long ago has helped you fix your problem, and attach a photo showing the size of the smile on your dial that’s the result of that.

Tell him L.I.T. and the other misfits at Swaylocks sent you.

While you’re at it, 'might as well include a hyperlink to this thread (http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/suggestions-specializedadapted-surfboard?page=1) in your email to him - you never know; he might just chime in here and give you some more advice on what you can do in your next board to help alleviate your issues. If I was in your shaper’s shoes, Greg’s someone whose opinion I would at the very least entertain.

Speaking of your local shaper, I don’t mean to be stepping on their toes with any of my comments/idea’s here; they’re the professional, not me, so in your next board, their opinion should carry the greatest weight with you.

I’m just trying to help out to the best of my limited knowledge by throwing in my 2 cents worth.

Anyway, hope you get to have a play around with some different fins in your current board, and to have a play with some different boards as well. Please post to let us know how it all goes. We’re here to learn too.

Okay, I’m off to pack the car and head off down the coast (i.e. will be offline) for a week or so.

Hope my comments have been of value & will catch you all when I get back.

Cheers!

…you are somewhat big for a woman but your board is even bigger. First a fish (a modern one) is not a rookie board. A 6 fish is used by big guys (1.90 m, 93kg); the fish design should be used 8 inches shorter than your daily HP board; so in your case, is better to change to another design; other members mentioned designs that could be work for you but remember that is not good, more in your case to go big in length.
For shorter and wider designs, go with less nose (at 1 and 2 ft from the tip) rocker and convex bottom with tucked edged rails on the first inches then softer then hard. Put more rocker under your back foot and kick tail with V convex bottom.
Let all the meat under your chest and under the stance position, tapered all other out.
Reduce the nose area max as possible. Do not do full rails.
Reduce those 22 inches to 20 1/2. Train triceps and cardiovascular and train calf muscle if you can. Go bigger and bigger is the worst thing for the daily surfing conditions. Better is going shorter as possible and be trained.
Of course with an smaller board you can have a bad stance or position of the foot but tweaking would be better and moves should be faster and flow easier.

Great information. I have been a member of the Finatic Fin trial program for about 8 months now trying out all different fins. My current board has a Futures 5 fin (quad or thruster) but I have had more success riding it as a thruster. I am currently using Kinetik P3 Size Medium but I will certainly try out some small sizes as you suggest. I will be sure to send an email to express my gratitude to Greg. Safe travels. 

OP mentioned Baked Potato. Nobody has commented on that? I mean, as a reference board that a lot of people know, to see and experiment what works. 

I’m overly front footed and I didn’t like the potato so it seems to me worth checking out that kind of thing. 

I tried a Vader last month and yeah it was very back foot so maybe that one too. But the potato could be a better board for testing and learning?