Looking seriously at moving towards SunCure additives to all my Silmar resin use where possible. I’d rather rig up something other than those “rolling tubes” to handle longer boards and to avoid the space they take up. Anyone using this system that can comment on their setups. Why can’t you use a hanging drop of say 4 eight footers overhead and banks or side mounted ones instead of the rolling tube. Thanks for any ideas. Tom Sterne
I have some experience in lighting. If I were going to UV expose surfboards on a regular basis, I would consider non-color corrected High Output (HO) neon flourescent bulbs with appropriate ballast setup. These are the cheapest HO bulbs available. You get more lumens per watt with flourescent than any other practical light source. The tanning bed suppliers have bulbs which they claim are UV optimized, but they are more expensive than the industrial HO type. All neon flourescent lights emit lots of UV unless you convert it. I’d like to compare spectral curves between the two. I’ll bet there isn’t ten percent difference in UV output. Another strong, but slightly less energy efficient, source of UV light comes from mercury vapor (MV) lights. You can buy the 175 watt variety from the builder supply store pretty cheap. Again though, get the non-color corrected variety. MV lights have a point light source. MV won’t surround the board with UV like flourescent will. But If you could mount 4 MV flood lights at the corners of your curing room ceiling, you could turn them on, and expose a board without moving anything.
Noodle: This sounds like good info. The comparison of flourescent UV ratings and the hype about “tanning” bulbs being the best doesn’t surprise me. Now the next question that comes up is about what I’m going to have to do to remove any stray UV lighting in my setup so I don’t inadvertantly expose the suncure catalyst BEFORE I’m ready to. Am I going to have to get a light color meter and tune my overheads first then figure out which product to buy as the UV source? (this is starting to smack of photo studio lighting 101 and light color correction). Tom>>> I have some experience in lighting. If I were going to UV expose > surfboards on a regular basis, I would consider non-color corrected High > Output (HO) neon flourescent bulbs with appropriate ballast setup. These > are the cheapest HO bulbs available. You get more lumens per watt with > flourescent than any other practical light source.>>> The tanning bed suppliers have bulbs which they claim are UV optimized, > but they are more expensive than the industrial HO type. All neon > flourescent lights emit lots of UV unless you convert it. I’d like to > compare spectral curves between the two. I’ll bet there isn’t ten percent > difference in UV output.>>> Another strong, but slightly less energy efficient, source of UV light > comes from mercury vapor (MV) lights. You can buy the 175 watt variety > from the builder supply store pretty cheap. Again though, get the > non-color corrected variety.>>> MV lights have a point light source. MV won’t surround the board with UV > like flourescent will. But If you could mount 4 MV flood lights at the > corners of your curing room ceiling, you could turn them on, and expose a > board without moving anything.
Tom, Yeah, your glassing environment should be relatively free of UV. As for light leaking from your curing bed/room… UV requires a tight mirror to reflect it, and solid, shiny objects to refract it. UV doesn’t propogate as well, like set waves on a point break. So inadvertent UV won’t fill up a room as easily as visible light, or heat. A year ago I talked to the Surf Source guy about inadvertent curing. You’ll want to call them. Aparently Suncure cures Best in UV. Longer wave length light, all the way through heat, will set up UV resin, only MUCH slower. Incandescent light has extremely little UV. Its spectral curve is roughly a bell curve which starts in heat, peaks in visible red, and craps out in blue. A good source for UV glassing and hot-coating. However, if I was staking my business on this system, I probably would independently confirm anything I heard from sum nut on the internet. A Webcrawler or Yahoo search would probably take you to some excellent lighting supplier sources. Good luck, Noodle>>> Noodle:>>> This sounds like good info. The comparison of flourescent UV ratings and > the hype about “tanning” bulbs being the best doesn’t surprise > me. Now the next question that comes up is about what I’m going to have to > do to remove any stray UV lighting in my setup so I don’t inadvertantly > expose the suncure catalyst BEFORE I’m ready to. Am I going to have to get > a light color meter and tune my overheads first then figure out which > product to buy as the UV source? (this is starting to smack of photo > studio lighting 101 and light color correction). Tom
How about a black lites? And,U.V. tube covers for your floresents?
How about a black lites? And,U.V. tube covers for your floresents? The tube covers are pretty far from my knowledge base. I would ask for specifics. But I can say this. Any time you add phosphors to a light tube to convert one wavelength to another wavelength, you lose light. The process is pretty inefficient. My son confirms this. He’s a qauantum mechanics type physicist. Black lights only have a little, if any more UV output than standard flourescent tubes. They just don’t emit very much visible light. I think tanning lights are to non-corrected HO lights as blacklights are to standard non-corrected flourescent lights. Standard black lights wouldn’t output the intensity needed for rapid UV resin exposure. But still, good try. You’re on track.
Tom, It’s been a while since I designed lighting, so I boned up at General Electric Lighting. GE has long been one of the prime movers behind American lighting R&D.: http://www.gelighting.com/na/business/ Here is GE’s line of “T” (an electrode mounting bracket designation) tubes: http://catalog.gelighting.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?&pagename=GE_Lighting/Catalog/Production_www/home&mode=browse&path=,FLU&subcat=L2-22 Here is GE’s glossary of lighting terms: http://www.gelighting.com/na/institute/glossary.html#C Here is GE’s light tube (12525) which, from my reading of the GE glossary’s “color temperature” description, would emit large amounts of UV light… 5,000 deg. K like would fit your needs: http://catalog.gelighting.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+FTContentServer?&pagename=GE_Lighting/Catalog/Production_www/itemdetail&CurrItem=12535&CurrMarket=NA Also, GE’s glossary description of “phosphor” confirms something I thought I remembered: “Phosphor, An inorganic chemical compound processed into a powder and deposited on the inner glass surface of fluorescent tubes and some mercury and metal-halide lamp bulbs. Phosphors are designed to absorb short wavelength ultraviolet radiation and to transform and emit it as visible light.” … this means that phosphors may convert light only to lower energies, never to higher energies. Store-type flourescent tube phorphors convert UV light into visible light, but tanning bed tube phosphors may NOT convert visible light to UV light. Black lights and tanning bed lights merely filter out emitted visible light. These UV “specialty” lights emit NO more UV light than their standard cheapie counterparts. That said, the GE brand is probably not the cheapest source of lighting fixtures, ballasts, or bulbs. I would look locally, starting with the home supply store, then maybe WW Grainger… -Noodle>>> Noodle:>>> This sounds like good info. The comparison of flourescent UV ratings and > the hype about “tanning” bulbs being the best doesn’t surprise > me. Now the next question that comes up is about what I’m going to have to > do to remove any stray UV lighting in my setup so I don’t inadvertantly > expose the suncure catalyst BEFORE I’m ready to. Am I going to have to get > a light color meter and tune my overheads first then figure out which > product to buy as the UV source? (this is starting to smack of photo > studio lighting 101 and light color correction). Tom
I usually add a low dose of catalyst(enough to gel the batch)then put the board in the sunlight.The light rig interests me,but with limited space would it be worth it? Also does adding catalyst to UV resin cause premature browning/aging or other complications?Herb.
I usually add a low dose of catalyst(enough to gel the batch)then put the > board in the sunlight.The light rig interests me,but with limited space > would it be worth it? Also does adding catalyst to UV resin cause > premature browning/aging or other complications?Herb. Herb, I asked that question of the Surf Source guy too. At first he said no, but I got him to admit that storing the resin in an excessively hot environment could cause it to age slightly faster than uncatalyzed resin. Heat is a form of light. Heat would expose Suncure, but e-x-t-r-e-m-e-l-y slowly. The jug of Suncure which I left out in my hot Houston garage yellowed after a year, then kicked in another four months. Compared to uncatalyzed Sylmar, that seems about the same. My experience with cured Suncure resin is the same as the other guys who have testified here. It’s great! No yellowing or weakening. It’s totally cured after five minutes. There’s no 30 day wait to surf. However, I only use Suncure to cover my epoxy glass jobs. The Suncure laminators’ experiences would probably be more useful to you. The Surf Source guy recommended catalyzing only the amount of resin you can use before it goes bad. The dried catalyst lasts much longer. You can use it on your next resin order… and the one after that. People say to mix it thoroughly. -Noodle
I usually add a low dose of catalyst(enough to gel the batch)then put the > board in the sunlight.The light rig interests me,but with limited space > would it be worth it? Also does adding catalyst to UV resin cause > premature browning/aging or other complications?Herb. Try to find a cool place out of the light to store it(sounds like wine storage). Here is the ieal set up, have a skylight about your galssing rack. Problem solved. A swith openes the shield to expose the skylight. No bugs or wind blowing leaves and particles onto your board. Leave the tanning lights for the chicks and don’t use anymore lights that you need to, electricity is expensive here in Cali!!!
Steve: You 'da man. The skylight is a real possibiliy for me (easy mod the way the roof is made) and simplicity always wins. Whats up with doing a whole board though? Giant skylight? How about the laps underneath? I already use exterior foil insulating panels on the interior roof, wonder if doing the walls would allow enough “bounce” from the single skylight and an existing side window that could be shuttered on one side. Tom.>>> Try to find a cool place out of the light to store it(sounds like wine > storage). Here is the ieal set up, have a skylight about your galssing > rack. Problem solved. A swith openes the shield to expose the skylight. No > bugs or wind blowing leaves and particles onto your board.>>> Leave the tanning lights for the chicks and don’t use anymore lights that > you need to, electricity is expensive here in Cali!!!
Looking seriously at moving towards SunCure additives to all my Silmar > resin use where possible. I’d rather rig up something other than those > “rolling tubes” to handle longer boards and to avoid the space > they take up. Anyone using this system that can comment on their setups. > Why can’t you use a hanging drop of say 4 eight footers overhead and banks > or side mounted ones instead of the rolling tube. Thanks for any ideas.>>> Tom Sterne Call Dave at Fiberglass Hawaii in Santa Cruz. He set me up on how to make the box. I made and wired the box in a weekend and can’t say enough about how I love working with it. The box is 12’ long and 30" wide. I made it with insulating foam sheets and lined it with reflective insulation. It takes about 10 minutes to kick a board. I use a timer and can separate the upper and lower lights. This helps if you want to cut a lap and still want to kick the other side. Making a box is the only way, and if you need any advice I may be able to help. I use (6) UVA 4’ bulbs on the top and (4) 4’
Jorg: Sounds interesting. Any chance you could post a quick written detail or drawing to the “board” section. What’s it framed with, is it on wheels or raised and lowered from ceiling? I could do 12’ if I could hinge one side to open. What type of lamps work for you? Thanks for the tips. tom > Call Dave at Fiberglass Hawaii in Santa Cruz. He set me up on how to make > the box. I made and wired the box in a weekend and can’t say enough about > how I love working with it. The box is 12’ long and 30" wide. I made > it with insulating foam sheets and lined it with reflective insulation. It > takes about 10 minutes to kick a board. I use a timer and can separate the > upper and lower lights. This helps if you want to cut a lap and still want > to kick the other side. Making a box is the only way, and if you need any > advice I may be able to help.>>> I use (6) UVA 4’ bulbs on the top and (4) 4’
Steve:>>> You 'da man. The skylight is a real possibiliy for me (easy mod the way > the roof is made) and simplicity always wins. Whats up with doing a whole > board though? Giant skylight? How about the laps underneath? I already use > exterior foil insulating panels on the interior roof, wonder if doing the > walls would allow enough “bounce” from the single skylight and > an existing side window that could be shuttered on one side.>>> Tom. You’da man Tom. Sounds like you got it together. Solar Tubes and then something to bounce the light for the laps. Or when you turn the board over for laming either the top or bottom, the laps will get exposed. It does take much sun light. The guy at Glass Hawaii in Santa Barbara glasses boards with UV resin and finds little downfalls.Run solar tubes down the walls at angle them upto hit the laps. The big skylight is great. Once you got the skylight installed, the light is free!!! Tom, you know a glass shop somewhere has already figured out the settup. Tap the info and do a modified home set up. Solar tubes are expensive though… Good luck. Steve