SUP/Windsurf Hybrid

General Discussion
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Here’s a project I just shipped to a fellow Swaylockian. He wanted a Hybrid Windsurfing SUP design that he could ride light wind surf in Florida and let the wife and kids (and him) use it as an SUP. 

The challenge was to marry the two designs together, which differ significantly when it comes to rocker configurations, the addition of footstraps, a mast track, and carrying slot. We also used some out of the norm material on the deck and a multi fin option for both wave riding and what windsurfers call “going to weather”. 

As many of you know, I was very active in sailboard design throughout the 80’s, developing the 2nd fastest sailboard which was clocked by radar, and some of the first revolutionary moves in windusrfing have been accredited to star rider Brett Lickle while surfsailing hookipa.  Moves like barrel rools, forward loops, and double loops… Brett was also one of the first to tackle Jaws on Maui, and today is Laird Hamilton’s tow in partner. 

This request required clearing out a lot of “cobwebs” from the 2nd and 3rd rows of my designer mind before tackling tis request. Here’s some pix of the journey.

 









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A few more





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Interesting blend. Where do you get the footstrap inserts? Homemade?

Dig the bi-axial cloth.

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Thanks.

Actually I’m pretty sure Chinook makes the inserts and they had them at Fiberglass Hawaii. Guys probably use these for tow ins these days.

The biaxial likes to suck up the epoxy,so you have to be aware whenlaminating. 

This board is 9’0"x32"x4-1/2"… EPS of course. 

It was a real chore handling it until the handle slot was installed after the hotcoats. 

I started calling it “The Great White Potato”.

…just got p/u at the shipping terminal in Tampa yesterday… awaiting feed back…first impression was “spot on”.

Will keep you posted… see how a Sway’s guy compares to StarBoards.

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My money is on the Homeboy!

 

ps. Is the bi-axial a bi%^& on the laps? Seems it might want wrap a little better, no?

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Wow,

 That is very, very nice. It is also very, very strange. I just am ready to final coat the deck my longboard SUP/windsurfer today. I wish I took pics of the total build to show you how I was taught. To be honest with you, I think I learned the most about board construction by making windsurfers.

I built mine because it they are around $2000 retail for the longboard windsurfers and I am cheap. It has been pretty windy all summer and I am anticipating some serious fun on this thing.

I made mine 10’ x 30" x 3 3/4". I have been on a corecork rampage so I did it in NL-20  2mm cover. My mast foot box is balsa/carbon/carbon-kevlar sandwich 6" wide x 2 1/2" deepx 24" long. Made a twin fin and will be using 8" wave fins in them.

DS- Thanks for posting your pro build. I get the vibe most peeps on sways dislike the sup thing. As shown by you, there is so much you can learn from these type of builds/boards to incorporate in making better surfboards. As usual a pic is worth a thousand words. Awesome build and post. 

 

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Interesting look you have there. 

The potato was such a departure from what we rode at Jalama, Maui, and other spots back in the 80’s. My light wind board was 8’6" and what I called a “Puddle Jumper”. It’s 21" wide x 4" thick. Really all my boards were water starters. The 9’0" to 9’6" slalom boards could be uphauled, but only with skill and difficuty.

I see U Tube videos of people longboarding and it puts me to sleep. I guess different strokes for different folks. Like ocean goers vs. wavepoolers.

The biaxial cloth was furnished by the customer and it wasn’t wrapped fully around the rail. The board picked up a considerable amount of weight from this stuff, and to be quite honest, my old school approach (but leading edge thru the 80’s) is the way I would do these boards today. 

Like you, I learned more about board construction throughout the 80’s than at all the rest of my years put together. Of course I was also making six figures back then and plowing back profits with extensive R&D to stay ahead of the curve. I miss those days. It’s nice to earn a reputation, get momentum, then just keep it rolling.

Windsurfing back then was a real boom time, now days when new things come along, like tow in, kiteboarding, or SUP’s, the whole corporate machine is already established just to roll right into it in a nanosecond. 

This board was a one off, and as with all one-off’s,you usually work 3x as hard to put the first one together. Whether you ever get a chance to make more, get a rhythm going and reap the rewards is more the exception than the rule.

To sound very immodest, I probably have forgotten more about windsurf boards than most people ever knew.

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The board looks totally bitchen, and it looks like  a great way to maximize the fun quotient.

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Ah Deadshape, nice to hear you talk about the roots of the windsurfing on Maui; I was there from day one; it was ʻ79 when I bought my first windsurf gear from Ken Klied and Mike Waltze who tried and failed at a windsurf rental/school at Kaʻanapali; having no instruction and being clueless on  how to sail the thing, my wife and I and our 1st child set up camp at Kanahā Park and pretty much taught ourselves to sail; the gear was a 12 ft strapless standard w/daggerboard, alum. mast, 8ft booms and 1, 40 sq ft sail ; it took some time but we figured it out and were soon coming back to our launch spot and doing some smooth “tacks”; next step, add straps which I did by bolting fire hose material right through the board; crude but effective; next stage, turn the 12 footer into a “chopper” by literally sawing 2ft off the tail and sealing the cut with resin/glass and adding finboxes and fins; “choppers” were a short lived phenom as Hoyle got wise and soon started production of what he called “Rockets” which were two finned standards with nice foot straps; Sailboards Maui opens up and they are carrying choppers and rockets and all the gear; enter Maui Sails and Mike Waltze with his first two foam/fiberglass boards and the rest is history; I was building my own glass boards and sailing regularly at Kanahā til ʻ85 when boredom and some other interests took over; but from ʻ80 to ʻ85 our little group had Kanahā all to ourselves; you should see it now!! started kiting in 2004 and still into it; have made numerous twintips that all broke; my latest rides pretty good; if you live on Maui and you are not into one of the 4 wind sports you are missing out on one of Mauiʻs most  valuable resources, the everpresent tradewinds; Kanahā Park in the winter time is the bomb surf spot when the “variables” return and the north swells make their appearance but unfortunately surfers are being overrun by dickhead SUPs; sorry, I wonʻt go there unless provoked ; sweet home Kanahā!!!

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You were definitely there at its infancy!

There were so many false starts for windsurfing in America. Those old “Surfer Mag” ads that people never noticed even being there. 

Hoyle and Schweitzer’s friend in Europe that asked them to let him give it a go over there… BOOM! It had to explode in Europe b4 making its way back to the states. Even then the image being promoted was wrong. People thought “it looks exciting, but I could never do that”!

…the ski people that had seen how “GLM” brought hoards more people into snowskiing refocused windsurfing on how to attract beginners with simulators, Star training boards, the image shift, formation of regattas, etc.

…and me, sitting in the background waiting for people to get proficient enough to want a “Ferrari”.

Gotta laugh about Kanaha. It became the Ledbetter of Maui…  I just remember sailing into a sidewash there while still being powered up, but going nowhere… weirdest thing I had ever experienced! Getting my first big air and landing it right at Spreckelsville… 

Today I could go down to “bedwetters” (what we used to call Ledbetter Beach just north of the harbor), and on a perfect sailing day that used to have 80 people out… there is no one. Maybe just maybe, a handful of kiteboarders.

I sat there one day like this, and just thought; how does a sport die? At least in Santa Barbara it did. It blows my mind.

Good years… just might have to make myself a new slalom board, dig out my bag full of beautiful “vintage” Neil Pryde sails,  and rig up! 

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Hi deadshaper,

good project, i use 6oz to 9oz biax for my last 15 boards, first time like you i found that it suck resin and i was disappointed because a guy from a good composit factory says me that it’s take less resin than woven fiber. So with his help i search how to:

  1. when i weight fiber i found that 6oz is more than 7oz.

  2. They say that this fiber need to suck resin so i lay it on resin and let-it suck, it’s finaly look dry but seem to be well laminate but it took lot of resin over for a decent finish

  3. the better way i find is to glue it with my “secret” eposealer (may be something like your secret sauce) then laminate over with fluid resin then laminate a classic cloth over. All in all it’s not take more resin than standard glass job with same weight of fiber.

  4. After reading many research thesis, many test panel and computer simulation with industrial software (i am a mechanical teacher) i found something that you explain for long time: because of form factor you need most fiber in lengthways so warpglass is better. Multiaxial is good on top for spreading force from foot. In optimize buiding, no need of stringer with good lay up for strengh and dynamic performance.

Happy if it’s can help and sorry for my frenglish

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**I finally got some feedback on the board as the wind and waves had not initially cooperated. **

**The board got up on a plane in 10 to 12 knots… that is saying a lot for that small a board. For the most part, whitecaps form at about 12 knots.
**

Rockerline compromise to make an easy turning light wind wave board and a viable SUP also worked out. The concern for me was that the shorter straight I used might not plane as early as I intended, and the mast track position might be compromised due to the carrying slot. I thought I was pretty right on with the position, but the mast track was a 10" box and the distribution foil of the board was totally different than anything I made in the 80’s.

**I told the customer if the board felt like it was “bucking” to gradually move the mast position forward. I didn’t have info on what sail he would be using, or what the draft profile of that sail might be. In the 80’s I was VERY up on what the sail designers were making as we rapidly advanced through flat, RAF’s (Rotating Assymetrical Foils) and Camber Induced foils. **

**I nixed the request for a daggerboard stating that a properly designed board of this length doesn’t need “training wheels”… the board had a FCS Fusion out to the rail quad configuration with 10" center box. This was combined with a slight single to double concave with RAZOR sharp tail rails and smidge of vee. **

**As I suspected, after riding, the quad fin setups will work better (to weather) with larger flat foil fins when losing the fifth center fin. For more maneuverability, I suggest FCS’s “IFT” (Inside Foil Technology) fins. **

**The board was pretty light but I would opt out of the biaxial and go with what I know that would shave a few pounds off the hull weight and still net a very light, strong board. Light weight is a plus when dealing with light wind wave boards. I know it was discussed in this thread how a lighter end result could be achieved with the bi-axial but I would prefer using S2 glass as I used it extensively and know thoroughly what my parameters are. I likely would incorporate carbon tissue and perhaps cork into the deck configuration.
**

**The end result reported was that the design was successful, which for a one off design, doing something different after a 20+ plus year lay off from building sailboards, and incoporating the SUP function into the design… well, I guess I haven’t ‘lost it’ yet.
**