At present, I am building a Pacific City Dory for myself and thought some of you who surf or fish from boats might be interested in the design. These boats were developed to be launched and landed at the beach through the surf. They are tough stable boats.Traditionally, they were work boats used by the Pacific City fishermen, who frequently took them out 50 or more miles - a fair journey considering they are usually only 22’ and are open. In any case, if you are looking for such a boat you might want to check out The Dory Page at http://home.att.net/~td2evers/index.htm There are some interesting photos of the boats in the surf. For construction details you might want to check out http://www.geocities.com/learnedsboats Learn’s boats have been featured in WoodenBoat magazine. He is another one of those talented Oregonians like Solmonson and Lopez. Must be something special about the place. Take care. Patrick
As a matter of fact, I’d be fascinated to hear how you’re going along. I’ve been thinking about these boats for some time, though in welded aluminum plate. .
I would suggest that the outboard-in-well is better in surf and following seas than the more conventional method/arrangenment of hanging it off the transom. My own experience in small outboard powered lobster boats and codfish boats through a tidal inlet gave me the impression that you don’t get the boarding seas from astern that you do wih all that weight all the way aft with no buoyancy behind it. The tradeoff of some storage room at the stern is well worth it.
Best regards
doc…
The boat “docks” still exist at Pedro Point (aka pacifica state beach, aka ‘linda mar’) and fisherman launch their aluminum boats through the surf regularly. Well, those that still have the balls and know anything about the ocean. When coming back in they just ride or outrun a swell and power right up the wooden ramps, being sure to pull the outboard motor up at just the right moment. Seems to work.
I’m very interested in your Dory project and would like to hear more as you continue.
Da boyz living there have been doing it for 35+ years, live there (Keating), and have lost some boats and motors!
I saw once a capsize in small S corner waves, as they weren’t paying attention heading in and got broadsided by a 3’ wave. Was in the water laughing my head off, as I’ve known most of those guys since the mid 60’s.
Doc,
The hull is built and faired(Douglas Fir and silicone bronze). Just beginning the glassing, more fairing and painting. So it will be awhile before I turn the hull.
There is somewhere on WoodenBoat, the Dory Page, or Glen-L Marine pictures and words by an aluminum builder. Sorry I can’t remember where. As I recall the builder was a retired tug master who wanted a tough boat. Apparently, it worked out since the write-up spoke of some extremely rough use with no major damage. If I can find the reference again I will forward it to you. The aluminum sounded good at the time, but I don’t have the welding skills, so I went with ply and epoxy.
I am doing the well mounted outboard style for the reasons you suggest. In addition,I noticed that Terry Learned and his father before him used this style on many of their boats so figured it must work.
If you are thinking of building you might want to talk to the folks at Glen-L Marine or Terry Learned at Learneds Boats. Terry does not sell plans, but is a very helpful person. In fact sometimes after hours of sanding I think I should have just bought one of his boats. Actually, I do enjoy the process.
Doc, I believe, there are versions of this boat used on the eastcoast referred to in some circles as Carolina Skiffs. I think they use a vee forward hull and have less rocker.
In any case, the Dory Page, listed above, has links to a number of builders and articles.
By the way, I found the Skene book you recommend several months ago. I must admit I have only glanced through it, but I will eventually get to it.
Take care. Patrick
Lee/Slim:
Do you know of any old pictures or articles re the Pacfica fishermen? Were they commercial or mainly recreational? I suppose now days it is mainly a recreational fishery.
Interesting how people in diverse locations solve problems in a similar fashion. I have also heard there is a Texas styled power dory used from the beaches there.
Take care. Patrick
They fish from their beach houses, off a dock which is dry at lower tides, and sometimes gets some big swells into the S corner, like 7’ max sizing.
Most are both commercial and rec, fishing during all seasons for almost any kind of fish, then selling it at HMB mostly, but also to some local restaurants.
Don’t have far to go, there is a mostly inaccessible, except by boat, coastline S and N, with good reefs and some kelpbeds right there.
Family business, not big business, but enough to get by.
One of the boyz is Richard Keating, the M fit model for Oneill wetsuits for about 30 years now. He was one of the legendary local surfers, invited to the Duke as an alternate around '69.
Patrick,
There was a lengthy article on Keating in an older SURFERS JOURNAL. I’m sure you can access the exact issue somehow. It had plenty of photos of the whole setup there (clearly detailing the design style of the boats), though no actual shots of the boats charging in or out. I’ve seen that Oregonian cultural phenomenon, and it’s a mind blower. Who’d have thought you could get big, heavy, V-8 laden boats in and out of the surf so easily…? I couldn’t envision it till I saw it in person; it was enlightening to say the least. Let us know how you’re progressing!
The Pacifica Library actually has some old local history books with shots from way back in the day - like when ocean shore railway brought city folks down from SF to spend the day at Shelter Cove and whatnot. I should go check that out and read it all again and scan some pictures just in case it disappears before my kids start to care about such things. Gotta pass down the local history. I bet there are pictures of the fisherman of those days and their boats. The coves north and south were also good drop spots for running whiskey in the prohibition days.
These days not many boats go off the docs. On a calm day there will be a few though. I assume Keating is still living there. I’ve never met him or any of the real old timers really (i’m 36 and didn’t come to Pacifica until the 90s: before that I was in Japan and before that Santa Barbara). They removed a couple of the houses off the beach recently and put in a new parking lot and kind of “restored” the wetlands around the creek mouth. Once the houses were gone, the right towards the creek has gotten a lot better it seems - or maybe it’s just coincidence. I’d have prefered they spent the money on cleaning up the water running down the pedro creek (sewer leakage…ugh) and into the lineup there, but at least they did a decent job on the “beautification” project.
On a slightly higher boat evolution level, at Bolinas, the local fisherman power out and back thru the Channel peak, always aiming to avoid the bigger sets, daily.
Anyone surfing there can enjoy the captain’s decisions as the peak can be really wide, with multiple closeout sets right in the boat channel. They never dredge that one, or maybe once every 10 years.
Hi Patrick,
yeah, I’m with you on the ease of wood construction, plus having to shell out two grand for the welder and accessories for building a boat like that. Though you can slam hell out of them - the aluminum Winninghoffs built up this way were cool like that, though they didn’t have the nice flat run aft like those Oregon dories and they tended to squat under power. Doug Fir and bronze is a good combination, one my friend Walter Baron uses on his Lumberyard Skiffs: http://www.oldwharf.com/ow_workskiffs.html - and they hold up well.
The Carolina Skiffs, yes, very similar, those and the boats the beach seiners used on Long Island for seining fish close to shore and right in the surf. Reminds me- I’m not awfully familiar with the design, but considering the Glen L version ( http://www.glen-l.com/designs/workboat/hunkydory.html ) I’d maybe suggest that a self-bailing watertight deck is worth all the extra work and weight it’d involve. Your scuppers could be at the aft end of the outboard well, and never having to worry about bailing or futzing or worrying about the boat on a mooring when it rains.
Boatbuilding - it’s awfully addictive. I’ll warn you now, though I suspect it’s too late already. You finish one and you wind up figuring what the next one is gonna be.
enjoy, man.
doc…
Lee/Jef/Slim:
Thanks for mentioning Keating and the TSJ article. I dug it out and re-read it this evening. What a great life he has lead and is living. Seems like the model of a true waterman.
Doc: Thanks for the Old Wharf reference. Some nice boats. You are certainly correct about boat building being addictive. Already looking at plans for a daysailor. Thought I would go for something simple then I saw pictures of the Dark Harbour-beautiful lines! Ah, so many boats so little time!!!
Since you seem aware of the addiction, I assume you must have a boat on the go. What are you building?
Take care.
Patrick
Hi Patrick,
Yes it is. Never gets better either. One of those ‘he who dies with the most boats wins’ deals - and I hope the new lady in my life is tolerant of it, more so than my ex was. As she is already after me to set us up with a sportfishing boat or several, I think it’s gonna go ok. Heh - serves me right, hooking up with a lady from a family that includes fishermen and whaleship skippers. Be careful what you wish for…
Current projects, plural, are a 25’ gaff rig sharpie sloop, Atkin or Alden sesign - forget which- that’s a perfect getaway boat for shallow waters and a new deck for the work skiff ( kind of a narrow lobsterboat kinda hull) and lastly a 26’ x 12" aluminum rowing shell I’m restoring with auto body hammers and incredibly light taps. Plus my work as a boat carpenter… I buy older boats and fix 'em, no epoxy involved, for the most part, and I have bargain boats.
Ah- the Dark Harbors. My brother had one of the dark harbor 12s - nice boat, but a beeyotch to maintain. Being from Cape Cod, I have a weakness for catboats. And I have nothing against finding a used one in need of a little work, it’s surprisingly easy to do just about anything on a carvel planked boat, they are built rebuildable. Not so for lapstrake or one of the later cold molded horrors.
And- may I commend to your attention www.sailrite.com , a veritable fount of information in making your own sails and canvas covers and such.
And…one of these days I may have to start on the Big Schooner…
doc…
Doc:
Relationships and boats!!!: Fortunately my lovely wife has spend a great deal of time on the water fishing. Unfortunately she views fishing without a net as a waste of time. As to sailboats her favorite comment is “Plastic Yuppy Toy”. However, I think this is fear speaking. Everytime I heel the boat over she tenses up. She simply will not buy the idea a heeled sailboat is very stable.
I have a retired neighbour who also buys old boats and rennovates them. For the last couple of years he has had a 40’ troller in his yard. Frequently he would hold parties on the back deck. Definitely saved on fuel and docking fees. Unfortunately going overboard resulted in a hard landing. In any case, I came across a 33’ Alden in the Free boat section of WoodenBoat in my area. I’m going to talk to him a see what he thinks time wise. You know you are getting old when you have to consider life expectancy as a project factor.
One other thing I have noticed with my boat that I don’t like is the effect of my shaping experience, particularily when fairing. I just can’t seen to let go and tolerate the smallest of bumps. I have even taken to setting up side lights to detect flaws. Must be the reason old shapers are great furniture builders.
In any case, I suppose I should stop using up Mike’s space on a borderline surf topic. Once again thanks for all the above comments. I will post some pictures when i turn the hull.
Take care,
Patrick