My one suggestion to the aps guys was to allow the board view to be rotated to a vertical position. Otherwise I have to tilt my head to “see” the board.
Figures.
Just me and Thrailkill on one side, the rest of the imposters on the other.
Do what you gotta do to get by, you gotta live with yourself and your ways.
I don’t really care, I haven’t shaped a board in decades, but at least I made my own templates, modified my own bottom shapes, and surprisingly, most every board worked well.
Ok. I admit it. I don’t quite live in the digital age. Find a board you like, take a template from the board, blend it with another template, and make another board, take a template from it if it rides good. Blend it with something else. Pretty soon you have a stack of templates. Be glad to trace any of mine onto a piece of paper and mail it to anyone. I love sending them to other countries. Part of, “sharing the stoke.” I don’t really care for computer generated shapes or templates. Just a crude, caffeined, hand drawn curve. Mike
"I don’t really care, I haven’t shaped a board in decades… imposters… you gotta live with yourself… "
Spoken like a Non-Shaping Tool!
If I were scanning all 3 dims of LeeD Priesendorfer boards into APS3000 you’d be right. And that’s all there is to say.
Lee DD .the ‘dd’ part obviously stands for Deluded Dickhead
Seems like a guy who pretends to be a gun shaper [“imposter” ??], but then in the same thread says , he hasn’t made a board for decades
this means either
a] you have dementia b] you are a troll c] you are a liar and full of bullshit d] all of the above
Well,my money is on d] , until a] we see photos of all these boards you supposedly shaped , “back in the daze” [your self-deluded ego-tripping ones] , and b] we see proof that you actually surf , today now here , NOT thirty years ago [ or never even ?]
Here’s an idea , Doleman Lee. Why don’t you stop talking yourself up like a big-headed asshole, and instead , actually MAKE A MODERN BOARD , TODAY ! Then , post pictures of it here , and let US comment on YOUR “expertise” , for a change ?!
One day , if you ever had the balls to do this , then , you “might” just have a small semblance of credibility , instead of playing the “internet playground bully” to every new person here.
Hey, lightin up on LeeDD. Just because he doesn’t currently make boards does not diminish the fact that he has a wealth of knowledge that some of us find useful. A template is just a small part of the finished board. You can use a computer program or your two hands and a good eye, but the end result will still suck if you can’t shape. Now you kooks can attack me!
He has a wealth of knowledge, but it’s all historical/theoretical at this point, it seems to me. He also has something like 20,000 posts on surfboard design between here and the Surfer design site, and Surfline, if I recall. (And probably ten other surf/windsurf websites I don’t know about) He hasn’t shaped a board in decades. Doesn’t surf 20 times a year. Rides a pop-out Bic funboard (uh, “semi-gun”), if I recall.
Now, aside from what kind of a personality all this would indicate (ladies, he’s single!), read some of his posts (hell, read a lot of them–you couldn’t read twenty threads and not find 12 LeeD opinions), note the negative, know-it-all condescension and ask yourself, this guy talks this much and admitted out loud on Swaylock’s (once) that he hasn’t shaped a board in decades? Now who’s an “imposter”?
I don’t think he should kill himself or anything, I just think HE should LIGHTEN UP on the taking himself so seriously, for the reasons you enumerate, as a matter of fact! And anyway, people have copped templates for ever and ever, so give us a break, LeeD.
“Kooks,” Tuna? Not necessary.
" Hey, lightin up on LeeDD"
sure, Tuna, when HE lightens up on repeatedly criticising newbies who are actually out there giving things a GO , and SURFING daily, and shaping BOARDS today . Unlike this fossil from a bygone age who likes to imagine he’s “THE MAN” , when it comes to surfboard design . In reality he is just like the grumpy old local at any beach who can’t surf well and hates seeing younger, more fit surfers stealing “his” waves . Leaves a bad taste for everyone else and tries to ruin the fun that surfing and surfboard building is’
Bill Barnfield , Jim Phillips , Roger Brucker and the other REAL shapers on this forum must piss themselves laughing at some of his posts some times ! [But luckily for “LeeDD” , they are too gentlemanly to confront him]
gotta agree with janks about lee’s “knowledge” being historical. Maybe it’s useful , though, IF you want to build shit 1970s boards and surf badly.
Not only are you an idiot, but you basically are associating me with Bill Thrailkill, meaning you are the imposter, while we shaped boards using our own templates.
As far as the decades thing. True, I haven’t shaped a poly glass Clark Foam board since 1976.
Maybe did 400 or so from '68 to '76.
So what, I made my own templates, made templates for several very prominent SantaCruz and HalfMoon Bay shapers, and never needed to copy anyone directly…I just looked at what looked cool, and took the basic length and width and added my own insight.
Didn’t need computers, ellipticals, battens, APS, or anything, just a true eye and a feel for sanding smooth curves.
You wanna see one of my shapes? Go to WiseSurfboards in SanFrancisco, walk towards the back of the lower level shop (where all the surfboards, up to 500 are displayed), and look for the green and yellow 7’3"er. It’s right next to lots of modern semi guns and big guy tris, you can compare and criticise.
You think you know it all and are at the forefront of technology. Nope, instead, you couldn’t hold a candle to any of the shapers from the late 50’s onwards.
okay guys, let’s be civil here. There is no need for hostilities. If templates would get more people into shaping, then great, if you don’t need them don’t use them, it’s that simple.
make a template however you want ,
it’s a free world , isn’t it ??
“True, I haven’t shaped a poly glass Clark Foam board since 1976.”
well there you have it folks .
Bill Thrailkill, on the other hand , is the real deal. He still shapes today .
now just relax and go surfing , doleman [the locals will be watching your every move]
LeeDD
Chinese can duplicate, French and his factory in Thailand as well, but not the local back yard shaper, what is that, we all use thruster, so should we also make our own fins to not be seen as cheater…imposters
The real core of the stocked is in your shed, not in a mega jail factory in Thailand were employees can barely buy a boll of rice per day, and work in the worst conditions possible (have you ever asked yourself why we never saw photos on the insides?). And maybe you forgot about sharing as well, that ‘s was it is all about. Do not judge, but listen and be humble. You shaping skill be rewarded.
I’ll be pleased and rewarded if somebody will duplicate one of my boards. I always help garage shaper; they prove to the surf industry that big isn’t always the answer.
Regards
Arnaud
i think the reason why surfboard evolution has been so slow
in both design and materials
is becuase of the lack of creativity and sharing of design concepts
and so called trade secrets.
and the greedyness of big companies,
that push there latest and greatest on the unsuspecting grommet
it so refreshing when you meet a shaper or builder that has some artistic ability
like some of those old cats that did those amazing sprays
or guys like Geoff Mccoy , Simon Anderson and Bert Burger who really push the boundries
we are talking a few curves here
hardly a mona lisa
copy away guy and gals
personly i think its pretty easy to design and shape your own
if you have an artist eye, some creative spirit and a steady hand
there no reason you cant make something better
in fact
its easy
still if there is an outline you like
just copy it (most rockers on a 6 2" are pretty much identical anyway)
and if the “pros” dont like like it
they can advertize on the radio
not the internet
who cares if you rip off a big comapany anyway
big companies ripoff the people of world
and the earth resources
and only care about money
steal there designs
and dont give them your money
burn their t shirts
make you own wax(to their recipie 
)
dont buy the magazines made from trees (except to rip off some shapes aye)
this may seem extreme
but really, who give a toss
there is no moral higher ground in the church of surf
its dog eat dog world out there
and copying a design of a surfboard isnt really gunna make a difference
in the big scheme of things
in saying all that though
it is polite to ask nicely
Can you seriously lump together the acrylic spray painters with the master shapers?
Aren’t they doing to completely different jobs?
You want to copy someone elses shape, fine. But…you will never, ever complete your transition from hacker to backyarder until you make your own. While I think that outline, as a design element, is way overrated, it’s the part that most people see so why not make it your own. Just like Bill and Lee say, grab some masonite, a carpenter’s square and a batten of some kind and fool around until it looks right. Just smoothing the curve of the template will teach you a lot.
A few weeks ago I finished up a pin tail for a trip to Indo. All mine; outline, rocker, rails and fins (well they ended up being mine after I botched stealing them from a Brewer). When I hit the bottom of a triple overhead backside wall and cranked it over…well there just aren’t the words for the feeling you get when it works like you thought it would (well, “relief” does come to mind).
It’s a surfboad for crying out loud…it’s not rocket science!
I think everyone agree that it’s not rocket science and anyone who want to can create a surfboard with or without a template, but I think the reason this thread got flamed is violating rule one of this forum… “no personal attacks”
(“YOU trying it is ridiculous and BIG HEADED of you for thinking you can even come close.”) Hmmm noun and adjective capitalized.
I can use APS3000 to do the same exact thing you’re talking about, but save everything and modify it easier. APS3000 IS a pencil, a batten and masonite, but better. Smoothing the curve of the template will teach me a lot? By massaging a piece of PVC pipe or a dowel or something until it behaves so I can draw something that looks like a surfboard? How about if I can manipulate every dimension of a shape and get all of it right-looking in 20 minutes?
At the end of the day, a template/outline is you designing a 3D physical object with a real world 4D function in a 2D medium. Whichever 2D app you use to do it, I think you need to understand the function of the curves, etc.
I think the more you draw them and change them and think about them, the more you can (possibly) understand them. I think there’s a (possible) quicker accumulation of understanding through the sheer amount of practice and thinking you can do drawing the things on APS.
But it isn’t rocket science. They got rockets all figured out.
edit: Ohhhh, you tried but botched ‘stealing’ from Brewer…well that pizzas me right off actually–being that I am Dick Brewer, never mind that what you turned out didn’t bear hardly any accuracy to what you tried to steal …
At the end of the day you gotta cut it, shape it, and it’s gotta work.
I see that some guys are pretty passionate about arguing against technology, though, so to do it all justice you should really be grunting your ideas at me in person, or writing them on my driveway in charcoal, so here’s my address:
Hugh Sillyman
After All Techs 1 Way, A Suite 1
Brewer’s Bend, HI OU812
Dear Dick,
I got no knock against using CAD programs for design…You still have to get it from paper onto masonite. And unless you have a CNC machine, you are going to have to cut out the outline with a saw. The learning part I (too vaguely) was trying to say is that you will have to manually smooth your cut with a planer or surform. If you can do that on the template, those skills will help you true up a rough cut outline on a blank.
Did you get the check I mailed you? Please forward a buck to Simon Anderson who’s three fin cluster idea you stole.
Mahalo,
Lee