Yesterday I went to the beach and it was pretty flat… So I surfed for the first time with my Funboard, 7’0 x 22 x 2 3/4, that I made to teach my family and friends…
Since the board had too much volume for me, I found it very hard to take off (specially to turn the board the way I wanted - My body was going, but the board wasn’t), to paddle (super wide board, my arms stayed far away from my body rsrs…) and to duck dive (impossible)
I was wondering, after that, what is more important for a beginner surfer:
Having a surfboard with plenty amount of extra volume, so he can learn fast to take off, even if he would have some issues to duck dive, or even paddling… ??
Or having a surfboard not far away from what is recommended for his size and weight (increasing paddling and duck diving ability), even if he would have difficulties for taking off??
The main question is: Should extra volume be worse for beginners surfers??
Another question I would like to ask… What should be the gap imagining the same surfer, if he’s a beginner and if he is an advanced surfer??
For example : Surfer with **187lbs **(85kg), 1,85m - Age : 25-35 years old
Surfboard for beginner level : 6’8 x 21 x 2 11/16
Surfboard for advanced level : 6’0 x 18 1/2 x 2 3/8
The short answer is no. A board in the 7’6’’ to 8’ 0’’ x 21.5 to 22 inches range, would serve you much better to learn on. All the other stuff can come later. A duck dive is not the only way to get through a broken wave. Put some time and effort into the learning process.
Yago - you say the board had “too much volume” for you, and at 22" wide it was super wide and your “arms stayed far away” from your body - I’m curious, how much volume is too much volume for you? Or where is the line drawn between too much and not too much? And I have a hard time visualizing how 22" could be so wide you have trouble paddling it. Also how it could be hard to turn a 7’ board the way you wanted to take off.
Not trying to bust your chops, just trying to get some clarity on your described situation. Can you post some pictures of yourself with the surfboard?
The subject actually is one I have an interest in, having built several boards with more than average volume as I have been exploring where the limits are for reasonable volume in an old-guy, or big-guy surfboard, along the lines of Joe Blair’s boards.
Hi Huck. I may have exaggerated a bit… It’s not like I’m a turtle with my arms far away from my body, but I’m 5’4 and 55kg… And I usually ride surfboards from 5’0 - 5’5… So, the first time with a 7’0 really felt kinda awkward to me…
I’ve created this topic because I’m about to start making surfboards for beginners … And after I surfed with a beginner board I could feel what these guys must feel when they jump on these types of boards…
When I started surfing I was 16 and I surfed with a performance 5’9… the board really allowed me to duck dive, paddle into hollow waves, etc… And I think that the maneuverability I had may have helped me to learn faster and skip the trouble of surfing with a longer board…
So because of that, I don’t know where to start… Is that so intersting to provide a greater volume to a beginner? Is he would be taking full advantage of this??
Or just making the board shorter (for shorter I mean not so big) and looser would help the guy to work things out in a faster and more radical / encouraging way??
I really have my doubts…
Some people just say that you have to start in longboards, funboards super wide and thick… But I really think sometimes a litlle less could be a litlle more , you know?
Of course, you have to consider the age of the surfer, the physical prep, frequency of surfing etc…
To some degree it will depend on your surf spot. If you are learning to surf in Indo, that is, I’m sure, a different scenario than learning to surf in So. Cal. But generally the things looked for in a beginner board are ease in paddling, and stability for the pop-up. Catching the waves and standing up are generally the biggest obstacles for the beginning surfer, who usually begins in smaller, weaker waves.
Duck diving doesn’t become an issue, I would think, until the surfer is experienced enough to get out in bigger, more powerful waves, where he is trying to position himself at the peak. Duck diving didn’t even exist when I began surfing, we just turned turtle and held on, or turned around and sat way back on the tail. Sometimes when we were right in the impact zone we would push our boards through the wave, then swim down, and swim out to the board. No leashes then.
At any rate, I don’t think I would be specializing in beginner boards if I didn’t have a clear idea of what worked well at my local. Swaylocks can provide some generalized input, but you have to know what works best for your area.
Here where I live begginers complain a lot about the difficulty to get out in the line up… There are some places that the outline is very far away from the sand, and even with small waves it’s complicated to get there… The take off is not that hard because there’s a lot of white water with good strenght to carry the surfer, so like you said, everything could change according to the surf spot…
In a case like that, I would go with Bill Thrailkill’s suggestion, give them an easy paddler with a little length, better for the long paddle out. Tell them if they can’t get out to the lineup because of duck diving problems, they probably shouldn’t be out there yet anyway. I’ve seen guys do a “kind-of” duck dive on higher volume boards by turning the board, pushing one side down and pulling the other up, and dunking the nose rail-first.
Are you on an island with waves that come out of deep ocean?
Higher volume boards are just easier to get around on, in my opinion. As I get older, I pay more attention to stuff like this. There is admittedly a point of diminishing returns where the extra volume no longer aids in catching waves (this is where the “corky” feeling comes into play), but I find that it still makes tooling around the lineup easier. A big part of learning to surf is getting comfortable out there in the big blue sea, its not just about stuff like turning easier and duck diving easier.
I think a lot of beginners see Kelly or JohnJohn killing it on their glass slipper, and think they can do the same. And psychologically, it seems easier to them to manage a small lightweight craft than a bulkier, longer board with volume. But catching and popping up is the big obstacle the beginner has to get past before he can fine-tune his wave riding. And beginners shouldn’t be out in the same waves Kelly and JohnJohn ride.
Guys like John Mellor have good success in teaching beginners, there are others here too, hopefully they will weigh in on the subject.
I’m not sure when it happened… I must have been asleep under a rock. When did duck diving become part of a board’s design criteria?
For a beginner’s board, you can hardly go too big or too wide. Chances are good that for the first several sessions (at a minimum) the beginner will be heading straight in with the whitewater.
An instructor should not simply provide the basics and send a beginner out to fend for him/herself. I wade or swim out alongside and help them navigate oncoming soup. I also help turn them around, and give them a push when a nice wall of whitewater presents itself. I also hold the tail and ‘bodysurf’ behind the board to help stabilize it while they are getting to their feet.
I do claim a pretty decent success rate in getting first timers to their feet but I give them a lot of help.
Riding the green part of the wave, carving turns, duckdiving, and everything else that some of us have learned to take for granted are completely alien skills to a beginner best left for some distant point in their future.
One thing I would want to know is the age and sizes of these beginners. A kid who weighs less than 125# might be willing to make a lot of compromises and endure a longer learning curve in exchange for having a cool-looking thruster to carry as they walk across the beach. Many kids will gladly suffer in order to avoid getting caught with a beginner board under their arm.
On the other hand, an adult who weighs 170# or 200# isn’t as agile and they will need to paddle into their waves more. Not only can they handle more volume and width, they need more volume and width to get their paddle speed up.
Forget worrying about handling the board through a long paddle and a lot of whitewater. Those kinds of conditions will be tough for a beginner regardless of what kind of board they’re paddling. Duck diving is an acquired skill. Look at your own situation - you’re an experienced surfer but the same technique that works for shortboard was inadequate for the longer board. If your technique was better the 7-0 length and volume wouldn’t have been a problem.
Instead, consider how a beginner actually surfs. The tend to pop up and surf the board from a more forward position, they tend to surf “flat” without engaging the rails of the side fins very much, and their timing and wave judgement is weak so they’ll be all over the map when it comes to too early or too late.
The one thing I wouldn’t ever do for a beginner is put them on a thruster because that fin setup in particular is very unforgiving when it comes to positioning. The sweet spot for a singlefin, or a twin or even a quad are all forward of the sweet spot for a thruster. Round tails have good hold and are smoother and more predictable. A moderate rocker tends to paddle well and has all the lift most people need in most non-critical conditions, but you can add some flip to the nose to make it even more forgiving. And a moderate amount of width - there’s no point in going too narrow because they’re going to be surfing the board flat anyway, so all going narrow does is slow down their paddling.
Still better to send a beginner to a beginner spot with a short paddle and soft waves, tough. That’s where the 9ft longboard will reduce their learning curve.
I didn’t express myself well … What I was trying to picture was a beginner with chances of fast evolution… Like kids or even younger adults with good physical prep and willing to surf many times a week… I was reading about those evolutions surfboards and tried to imagine a good surfboard to learn and to evolve (same board)…
Of course the beginners should go to a surf school and make classes with a longboard, then a funboard, until they can get to shorter boards…But many of them just want to order a brand new surfboard, and the shapers have to provide them the better cost bennefit…
gdaddy, you talked about sweet spot on non trusters… I understand your point of view, but I think most of funs and longboards have their sweet spot placed way forward comparing to shortboards (much more rail and stringer thickness at the front half of the board)… And the rocker is distribuited with great kick at the tail, with a flat area at the midlle of the board, and another flip to the nose… I think the increase at tail rocker still helps to put the sweet spot even forward…
Your thread title was about surfboards for beginners, but what you’re describing is learning to surf on shortboards for advanced surfers. So no, it’s not really about surfboards for beginners then. The racks and the classifieds are full of the popular kind of shortboards in style today.
My personal theory after teaching my 3 children to surf is that if the surfer plans on surfing regularly they should start on a shortboard. Funboards and longboards reinforce bad technique from the beginning by letting the beginner get away with it. You can’t use your knees, crawl to your feet or be slow to your feet on a shortboard. Teach them to pop to their feet on dry land before they ever try to paddle out. Leave funboards and longboards for weekend warriors and the elderly. ;^}
I kinda have to agree, they are very different styles of riding. Lotta guys who start on shortboards learn bad longboard technique, wide stink bug stance, and don’t move around on the board. And longboards and fun boards are in fact better for older or more sporadic surfers. It was a big transition for me to go to the longer boards with more volume, and learn a different way of riding.
When you say surfboards designed for beginners, there are certain givens that come to mind. But in fact most of us didn’t learn on those boards, and there are a wide variety of modern shortboards a grom could learn on.