I have been hearing a lot lately about surftech. Some people claim that the surf industry is destined to become predominantly flooded with companies like surftech. I have seen a few in person and have to admit they still give a wal-mart vibe IMO.Correct me if I’m wrong but they use a pu blank and an epoxy sandwich lam, does anyone know anything else about them. I wanted to hear what some of the people on here thought about the future of surfboard manufacturing. I for one will always love the feel of a board that I made under my feet.-- Kevin
Whew! That’s a loaded post Mecca. I for one am a little worn out with people talking about Surftech, China and the future of the industry. Not that these topics aren’t important, but there’s been tons of discussion and a lot of it is repetitive.
You should just search the threads here in General Discussion and Industry Talk. It’s loaded with information and opinions on the subjects you inquired about.
Specific to Surftech and some of the materials therein, check this site. The woman specializes in epoxy surfboard and sailboard repair.
Good luck.
(full disclousure- I own 2 surf shops and have been shaping for 15+ years)
WELL…w/the “Clark Foam Issue” I think there is a new direction in board making. That is to actually MAKE MONEY! Kind of how surf industry “sold out” our (surfers) image to push millions of t-shirts w/cool surf logos on them to any rube thinking that buying a t-shirt will gain him/her entrance to the club. This selling of surf brands (t’s and the California Coastal Lifestyle in general) was the way for those who loved to shape could make $ on brand/clothes while still pursuing the love of shaping?
As of now, employing a handfull of professional (but possibly unreliable?) workstaff at your usual SoCal factory has been replaced with the idea of QUANTITY. It’s easy to crunch numbers and see boards as a “per-unit profit”
but it does indeed take some of the magic out of the process in my eyes.
I guess the 2 biggest issues w/mass produced boards (can we call them POP-OUTS again? I like to negative connotation) are #1 Consumer need and #2 Ease of obtaining something normally hard to get? Maybe there’s more, but these 2 will suffice. #1 Consumer need- how long does one have surf beofre they REALLY NEED a custom board? My guess is that 70% or so of us, (unless we surf one radically different wave), could get by on a stock pop-out. Maybe after a few tyears of learning do we really need and can possibly articulate WHAT we need different about a board in order to make it surf better “for you/me”. More durable beginner boards are sure better than a beninner buying and destroying a lightweight 9’ polyester sanded finish board. #2 Ease of obtaining- Well, even as a shop owner, if I wanted a Harbour board, I’d be waiting at least 3 months, more now w/the Clark issue. Now I can call up STech and pick one up the next day. Is it the same lovingly crafted heavy glassed classic ride? I say no, but it IS avialable…and that is a good thing in the consumer/selling you a board industry…
Overall the feel of these hard shell light core boards is way different. Do I like it, for some instances, yes for some no. I’ve been riding poly/clark combo for 23 years so any change is going to feel different. If you start surfign today, you’ll probably be exposed to all types of boards as you progress, which ones will rise to the top…who knows? It’s tough for the average girl/guy to own all the tools and have the space to make their own boards. Fell lucky that you can.
my head is full of this stuff…
Thanks for the posts guys. The only reason I brought this up is because I am opening a surf shop myself and have been running into a lot of time restraints with some of the board builders we have been dealing with. IMO for the surf shop owner (pop-outs) are very apealing in the way that If I do my job right and we sell alot of boards one week I can fill the empty slots very quickly while I wait for my hand made boards to come in. I am very interested in the way things are headed because I pride myself on being some one who is open minded to new methods. Is it too much of a stretch to see a production shaper in the future designing a couple of boards on a CAD program and then emailing it to a manufacturing company and receiving it a week later ready to surf? I am not trying to kick a dead horse (clark foam), only looking into the future of individually designed boards.–kevin
interesting name when you are talking about surftech’s there.
Mecca- the holiest of holy places in Islam.it can be argued that the holy thing in surfing is the surfboard/vehicle it’s self.
bandit- theif, robber, outlaw. surftech is interferring with the holy surfboard.
riderofwaves, how do you believe surftech is “interfering” with the “holy” surfboard? In the same sense wouldn’t any one that is trying something different be interfering?
i wouldn’t exactly call surftech’s place in the world of surfcraft construction “trying something new”. that’s like saying sweatshops are okay because they’re just “trying something new”. or that everyone should give scientology a shot because “hey, it’s important to try something new”.
pop-out marketing has invaded my sanctuary…and it’s sooooo not cool. it’s bred ignorance into both surfers and shapers about “epoxy surfboards”. it’s caused retail workers to push pop-outs onto unsuspecting customers because “this board will last forever…it’s totally ding-proof!..and it costs hundreds less than this heavy, outdated, polyester board!!”. hmmm…higher profit margin for surf shops on popouts!!! not surprisingly, i know far too many people who bought a pop-out for their first board, only to quickly return it to the consignment rack at the same surf shop that sold it to 'em (hey…more revenued for the surf shop!). funny…i don’t know anyone who’s ever bought a pop-out twice!
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i wouldn’t exactly call surftech’s place in the world of surfcraft construction “trying something new”. that’s like saying sweatshops are okay because they’re just “trying something new”. or that everyone should give scientology a shot because “hey, it’s important to try something new”.
pop-out marketing has invaded my sanctuary…and it’s sooooo not cool. it’s bred ignorance into both surfers and shapers about “epoxy surfboards”. it’s caused retail workers to push pop-outs onto unsuspecting customers because “this board will last forever…it’s totally ding-proof!..and it costs hundreds less than this heavy, outdated, polyester board!!”. hmmm…higher profit margin for surf shops on popouts!!! not surprisingly, i know far too many people who bought a pop-out for their first board, only to quickly return it to the consignment rack at the same surf shop that sold it to 'em (hey…more revenued for the surf shop!). funny…i don’t know anyone who’s ever bought a pop-out twice!
I know your statement makes you feel more soulful, but once you travel around places that have waves you;ll see that there are all kinds of surfers riding ST’s. I just came back from Santa Cruz and they were all over the place and nobody really seemed to care because they were all riding good waves. Same thing here and in Hawaii and elsewhere. Just today, I was in the Beachhouse and called a friend who was looking for a board. There was a 9’6” Yater HP, it looked brand new w/ fins for $600.00. It was right next to all of the beat to shit polyester boards selling for $500.00. My friend was stoked, it is his third one. No profit on polyester
mecca bandit,
there’s a post by doc about retail surf shop. You should search for it and read it. It has key information and can save you from alot of trouble. search for title with ‘How to open a surf shop or why not to. Series With Doc’
I don’t believe in ‘boards’ having soul. But I do believe they are integral to surfing, and without them surfing is not surfing. It’s body surfing :oÞ !
I haven’t ridden the new surftech. The old ones, I have. DIdn’t like them. Well not for longboards. Maybe shortboards . . .
But in anycase the reasons why surftech longboards doesn’t work is its not weighted properly. The balance of them is a little off. I could go more, but other posts cover it and it’d be pages of stuff.
In that case the materials and construction isn’t adjusted for the shape. Or the shape adjusted for the materials and construction method used . …
The issue with surftech is that surfboards aren’t one size fits all. And they still need to dial the process to produce boards that ride good.
An experienced surfer told me, a beginner, the board’s influence is 70-80% of their ability to surf (learn on proper board), an intermediate surfer, the 50% of influence in surfing comes from the board. He told me an experience surfer, 10% of the board makes the difference.
That said, here’s why I don’t like surftech on their intention:
Surftech is designed under the guise and intention of being rapidly made, cheap, and easily available. This is designed to be easier for a retailer to deal with. They don’t have to negotiate with shapers. This is an entry level board. You can get them much faster and more cosmetically and aesthetically better looking than the usual entry level board shaped by a newbie shaper or glassed / sanded by a newbie glasser / sander. They can use volume pricing and both retail and board manufacturer gets a good profit.
This also takes place where exploitation of people, land, and materials can be done. The legal systems allow that. You can dump liquid waste into the nearest river. You can pay your workers just enough to make a decent living. You can set their hours. If one of them gets injuired or killed, you can pay them off and sweep it under the rug. And the local authorities look the other way because you have money.
Surfboards shaped by someone’s hands are designed for riding waves. Someone takes account of the local conditions, their ideas, and the surfers ideas and intentions . . . specifically just for riding. Not so both can generate profit. Of course the shaper / glasser / sander gets paid for their time and well enough to provide. Both both learn from each other. Knowledge is passed, and many other intangible things . . . feeling of riding waves.
One is to feed commercial, the other is to feed stoke.
Its not wrong to make money off of something. But it is wrong to lie and give false information. It is wrong to knowingly make changes that will be to the detriment of others and their future. It is wrong to push and use something beyond its natural order, hence abusing its original purpose and intent. . .
I don’t know how the lineups are in texas, but here in california (so cal) there is a distinct problem of crowds. People that didn’t think about surfing now can think about it because there is a cheap board sold in stores that aren’t necessarily concerned with surfing, such as walmart.
They are using the recreational angle with surfing. But surfing is much more than just a recreational sport, and you cannot fuel it like commericalism that has surrounded main stream sports. It is a way of life. It is difficult to learn, and there are rules that benefit everyone that you only learn by hanging out with experienced surfers. Surfing uses a finite resource and finite space and time to do that. You cannot build more golf courses, more fields, more pools, more training centers . . . And wave pools are many years away.
Now you have “experienced” people negating the rules and providing bad examples to others . . . it is ok have multiple people per wave. Whomever standing up first wins. You don’t have to share, its a competition and your goal is to win by taking as much as you can. Its ok go out when the waves are clearly beyond your ability. Its ok to go and mess with the green before you can stand up. . …
I also don’t like surftech’s marketing . . . it leads you to believe they are tough, last longer, made better. And this is not true. My surftech would ding. It would not deck dent like pu/pe boards, but it would ding just the same.
Mecca, the thing with the manufacturer using a machine to make shapes from a master shape is done. Al Merrick, Rusty, Lost . . . all the big name shapers do that already, and have glass shops glass them on a production level. This often leads to people chooing the wrong sized boards for their ability and height . . . rather than having a shaper tell them what will work for them . . . surfermag forums, just browse the classifieds and read the design section . . . people will say a shape rocks but then few months later, it shows up in the classifieds.
At the moment the shaping machine is best for duplicating shapes. Reproducing a shape by hand is very difficult, and has a low chance of success. By a machine, its is much higher ratio of success. Reproducing magic shapes is great. However even then sometimes reproduced magic shapes still won’t be magic . . . some elements such as fins, fin placement or final finishing, glassing / sanding . . . can be changed . … .
But its only a tool, and only as good as the shaper using it. Not ment to replace her.
Rich Harbour told the guys and gals at Cerritos one thing. Don’t follow fashion. DOn’t buy into trends. Find out what works for you. What type of surfing you want to do. What type of waves will you be in and buy a board based off of that. Unfortunately, unless you are experienced or have someone experienced helping you, buying off the rack is hit or miss. Also watch out for ‘hacks’ calling themselves shapers.
There is a balance to everything though. Running a shop you have to make money. But also there are decisions you can make to do things, help others, and inspire others to be better.
my statement has nothing to do with “feeling soulful” or, quite frankly, anything to do with anyone but me and my own personal observations (both in my backyard, and abroad). perhaps it is a product of locality, but it’s been my experience that pop-outs just don’t work well in east coast slop. they’re too light, and just get thrown around by every little bit of chop. they flex in all the WRONG ways, and don’t flex where i want it to. surf shops push pop-outs on people because the shop turns a higher profit margin. and i can honestly say, that out of EVERYONE at my local breaks that i know (which, to be perfectly honest, would be everyone at my local breaks)…there are those who have bought pop-outs, and not a single one bought a second, and i can only think of 2 or 3 who even kept theirs for more than a year.
i’ve even used pop-outs in better surf than our usual 1-3’ windslop. traded with a friend in the lineup for the pop-out version of the same board i was riding…9’0" robert august “what i ride”. the board was so light and floaty that the strong offshores held me back when i paddled for my wave, such that i couldn’t manage my usual nice, early drop-in. i managed the steeper-than-normal drop, but when i reached the bottom, the flexiness of the board just ate up all my momentum…wave chewed me up and spit me out. meanwhile, the guy on my board got a pretty decent ride on the second wave in the set. needless to say, getting him to trade back wasn’t easy. i think i’ll stick with my “no profit”, “beat to shit” polyester boards…oh, wait…my polyester boards aren’t beat to shit…the August is 3 years old, and looks pretty decent…and i’ve got much older poly boards that are in perfectly good shape. moreover, i have nothing against epoxy resin. in fact, i’ve been using it for a few years now over PU blanks, and plan to give EPS a shot in about 2 months. it’s no-stringer, flex like a tub of jello, p.o.s. pop-outs that i just don’t like.
Photo courtesy of Randy French
Put your local shaper out of business buy a surftech.
Mecca,
I told you it was a loaded question.
funny…that doesn’t look like florida
I will tell you that I have a 9’6" wood veneer Hap Jacobs performance noserider pop-out. I honestly don’t really like the ride too much. I can hang ten on it, so that is a bonus. Being that I’m in Florida, and you’re in Texas, I would think that type of board would sell as the style of our waves are somewhat similar (aka small and mushy), and these boards generally ride okay in that type of surf. They float really well and they’re strong.
I’m more comfortable riding longboards now, as I’ve been doing it for a few years now. I’ve only ridden eps/epoxy longboards, so I can’t really weigh in on what a “classic” polyester longboard is like. I do think the general populus would probably buy whatever is priced right, local or imported. I am a staunch proponent of the “support your local shaper” philosophy, and this pop-out was an anniversary gift from my wife (wood was the theme for the anniversary). I will be replacing it with a 10’ chambered balsa glassed with epoxy by Richie Buehn, a very skilled local shaper, very soon. So, if you are in the neighborhood and want to look at a mint condition, barely ridden 9’6" Hap Jacobs…
Mecca_bandit: Check SurfTech’s website. They have a picture of the construction. It’s an EPS core with a PVC sandwich skin. That’s why most repair guys won’t touch an ST. - At least as far as I know.
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… The only reason I brought this up is because I am opening a surf shop myself and have been running into a lot of time restraints with some of the board builders we have been dealing with. IMO for the surf shop owner (pop-outs) are very apealing in the way that If I do my job right and we sell alot of boards one week I can fill the empty slots very quickly while I wait for my hand made boards to come in.
Has your shop opened yet, or does the name start with “O”?
IMO, trying to cover all your bases might come back to haunt you in the end. Popouts are a totally different animal. But if you can make it work, more power to ya. …But, with a rack full of SurfTechs, some shapers may hesitate to put their boards in your shop next to them. Just a thought.
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Is it too much of a stretch to see a production shaper in the future designing a couple of boards on a CAD program and then emailing it to a manufacturing company and receiving it a week later ready to surf? I am not trying to kick a dead horse (clark foam), only looking into the future of individually designed boards.–kevin
Probably a little too much of a stretch. There is a certain time frame for the surfboard builders dealing with surfboard materials, suppliers, and other internal issues, then you add other customers waiting on boards from a popular shaper, etc. - Unless you are talking about pre-made popouts, then popouts don’t really customize, that’s why they’re called that.
Feel free to PM me or email me through my site ozzysurfboards.com.
Hope that helps.
well, mecca, i do believe pop outs have their place as an introduction to riding. my opinion of the interference is the over seas factor and the fact that they are made by non surfers. No, people expiermenting and try new designs is by no means interfering, thats how surfdesign progresses, the interference i am talking about it the ending of a surfer shaper relationship. I have no problem with people who buy surftechs, just i would rather ride my own board shaped by hand or one that some one else did and the money helps keep them surfing. It could be epoxy or whatever.
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Mecca- the holiest of holy places in Islam.it can be argued that the holy thing in surfing is the surfboard/vehicle it's self.
Would it be opening a can of worms here to suggest calling the surfboard the holyist thing in surfing is missing the point? maybe ambrose’ll have something to say on the matter?
it appears i have created a thesis yet wasn’t prepared to defend it.
tej, you are most certainly right the surfboard isn’t the holiest thing in surfing, but look at it like part of the bible you have to have all the parts not just genisis. The surfboard/vehicle, rider and wave make an iron triagle which is the heart of wave riding.from these three ingreidents comes the stoke and the beauty.